BREEDING??? - Page 1

OK don't pay attention to the age they are both pups and have not been OFA certified so please I am considering a puppy from this littler and would like to know what everyone thinks of the PEDIGREE BREEDING MATCH ONLY. a possible breeding??

Thanks

This is the pups sire and dam that I am considering

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/455261.html

 http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/113324.html

This is my dam Esche mala

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/544411.html

I have found that when you mix working lines with show lines there is a good chance you will not get the best of both worlds. In theory it sounds good because your mixing good drive with proper body proportions but i have never seen it come out good. I have heard of people taking a show dog that has good drive and putting into a long  breeding program to try to improve the later generations body proportions but the first few generations lack in drive and or sound body. The truth is it is imposible to say it wont work because when it comes to breeding there are so many variables. Good luck.

THANKS  i THOUGHT  SINCE ONLY SEEMED ONLY SOME SHOW LINES IN ONE SIDE OF THE PUP THE WORK LINE WOULD TAKE OVER NOT ENOUGH OF THE SHOW LINE?

THANKS FOR THE IMPUT

Forgive my stupid foray into this topic, but if you look just beyond the sables pedigree, is not it full of showlines? 

Haines...better than your other male but still mediocre...I'd shoot much higher. 

I wouldn't totally knock all WGR show/working combinations. I've got one who's well-bred and has impressive breeding on BOTH sides-just totally different due to the sire's side being blk/red high quality WGR show (2xVA1 Larus Batu, VA1 Saskia Arminius-VA1 Ursus line-breeding), the mother's side being a combo of WGR working/DDR/Czech (Fero Zeuterner Himmelreich, Chuna Policia, Titus). This girl is afraid of nothing (will sit and watch the push mower go right by her without flinching), solid-bodied, got nice conformation, and drive out the wa-zoo. The pic I took isn't the greatest showing her side for the pedigree link, but gives an overall feel of what she looks like and her overall build. http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/532420.html.
Head shots of my show/working female.

Re the success of mixing disparate elements of the GSD genome- whether they be hiline and working or Czech or KNvp or American etc etc. it depends on many things . First question is WHY is that particular breeding being made. What are the strengths/weaknesses of the individuals involved and why were they chosen as partners. Is it a complementary breeding(breeding to each dog's strengths and away from faults) or is it a type to type breeding(often done successfully with unrelated dogs). Sometimes you get a good click sometime bad. Generally speaking the first generation will be more unpredictable in type that they will produce tho that depends what is behind them ANd where you take them. For example if you bred a very tightly inbred or linebred show dog to a different type there is a greater chance of the type of the tight linebreeding being produced in the grandpups(of course depending what their parent was bred to).

Can it be done successfully - yes. katjo very pretty face on your girl. See also

2007  WUSV participant SG Ello von Herretts Fire IPO3 SCHH3 Kkl 2 http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/474457.html

and my girl - my service dog and my sport dog Remy Sch2 http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/485683.html

Haines To really answer your question it would be helpful to have more information. Are you considering a male puppy with an eye to the future as being a possible mate for the female 3 mo old puppy you currently have?  I noticed that your bitches great grandsire is Yoschy Edelwald and that Vesta's grand sire is also Yoschy. Is this why you are interested in a pup?

Also if you read the comment under Vesta there appears to be some question that this is in fact her pedigree as there was a DDR bitch by that same name( google returns a number of hits about the older/other Vesta who is shown on this db as Vesta1).  So first question is are you sure about the name and pedigree of the bitch?

Secondly the breeding you are contemplating is a repeat breeding. The other litter is about a year old. Have you gone to see them? Do they have what you are looking for in a dog and specifically what you are looking for out of this breeding? What is it you are looking for out of this breeding? Do you know the why - why this particular stud was chosen for this bitch - why his breeding is being made?

What is it that you hope to do with the pup you purchase and with the bitch you currently have? Schutzhund, herding, AKC obedience, conformation showing.....none of the above? Your answer to this may in part influence the answer to your original question.

I hope you are willing to share some of this information because it will help you to get a better answer and perspective.

If however the prime reason that you are looking at a pup is as a future breeding partner my recommendation would be not to do it. You have to grow out your girl and train her and do your vet clearances etc and then and only then will you know if SHE is of breeding quality. Then you will have a better perspective of what SHE brings to the table and what you need to change or improve. Only then should you begin to look for a partner for her and keep in mind that for the price of a stud fee you can get the best dog in the world FOR HER. This is far cheaper than taking a gamble on an 8 week old male pup who may or may not grow up to be breeding quality and may or may not be the right dog for her DESPITE commonalities in the pedigree.

I am the owner of Vesta.

TIG if you question this "really vesta's pedigree" you have my permission to do a DNA test on her.

"Also if you read the comment under Vesta there appears to be some question that this is in fact her pedigree as there was a DDR bitch by that same name( google returns a number of hits about the older/other Vesta who is shown on this db as Vesta1).  So first question is are you sure about the name and pedigree of the bitch?"

I am not the one who named her after her grandbitch down the line.

And yes she has been breed to a workingline male pedigree below, I did not like the out come of the pups that I have seen.

This is Vesta second breeding to Zack, I have one from the first litter. I think these pups are far better than the 100% workingline pups, from Vesta. 

I have no clue who Badpup is that made the comment on vesta, plese e-mail me who ever you are.

Suzie

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/search.html?main=db&string_in=Cir+z+neiberku&index_in=All&results_in=10

thanks for all the info everyone!  I'm looking for a blk/red male to work with and hand over to my brother and his family for their family pet possible therapy dog.  I thought these pups looked nice and liked the lines just curious about the working/show line breeding I know the differ between the 2 but am still learning.

So what I get for my brother I would like to have complimentary lines to Esche if everything checks out in the long run

Thanks again for everyones opinion!