UK Hip average - Page 1

As a breeder I am always trying to improve hips but the current UK average is 19. This seems a bit on the high side to me. I was wondering what other breeders thoughts on this.

Imo. I think that the BVA should lower this to 15.

what do you think?

Im guessing the average is based on the mean score gathered from the dogs put forward for scoring.

I am in agreement with you and due to personal experience, hips are a great issue to me.  I too want the average lowered and would like some sort of enforcement to stop people using dogs with high scores - which at the moment there is none.  However, There are many dogs who are not scored here in the UK but who are either taken to Germany for xray and scoring or their plates are.  If those dogs were to be scored here and had good scores it would affect the BVA results and in turn lower the BVA average.

I would also like to see progeny results published by breeders and some form of restriction placed on new stud dogs until their first few litters are scored, rather than a mass overuse in the first year and then bad results appearing and increasing the mean score or even the plates not going through for scoring.

Here in the UK, I want compulsory hip scoring/grading, alongside compulsory microchipping, and compulsory DNA testing for parentage, for ALL pedigree dogs registered with The Kennel Club,  in order for them to be permitted to be bred from.

Hip scoring average is worse now than it was in 1980 when the average was 15.5, despite the fact that  for the last 20 years, very few obviously bad hips ever get as far as the BVA, the real average nowadays is probably in excess of 20.  Restriction of studs would not be a workable solution, it would be no more than a witch hunt since the stud is only half the pedigree, you can't blame him 100% for any problems and environment also plays a great part.  

Margaret N-J

I quite agree with the need for compulsory chipping or tatooing along with other screening checks.  However I think that as well as that all dogs should be screened in their birth country and their country or residence.  This way it makes it easier and for breeders considering dogs - especially as it has been said that BVA cannot be compared with those of the SV.

It appears from postings on other threads that it is possible to send UK plates to the SV therefore there appears no reason why the paralleling isnt possible, along with posting progeny results on stud cards - assisting with the assessment of studs prior to using them.

I fully understand the "environmental impact" that can take place on dogs hips, however if multiple scores are shown then annomolies will show up and can be excluded when making assessments, but information should be given.  I also understand the impact from the bitches line, however it its their owner's who are paying for the use of the stud and their kennel name which takes the impact when progeny fail to reach expected standards.

Videx.    Yes how right you are !.  I would have thought that any reputable breeder would be most happy for this to happen.

The K.C. should have made it compulsory years ago that progeny from unscored parentage were not eligible for Registration !!!!!.  ( pigs might fly ! ).

Also while the Breed Council's guide lines for hip scores suitable for breeding are SO HIGH with I might add NO mention of elbow scores then breeders will carry on breeding with higher scores !!!.

What is really scary is to read the back of the Breed Supplement printed by the KC and some of the scores both bred from and some of those being produced.

However with no equality between international scoring systems how can the KC enforce a rule?  The dogs either have to be scored in the uk for progeny to be registered in the UK or the different systems have to show how they do balance or adjust them accordingly so that one score will work internationally.  This way there is no allowance for ignorance or for people so say that they do not equate and therefore one is better than another.

The KC are simply afraid of making health screening issues compulsory, afraid of losing REGISTRATION BUSINESS. They are also afraid of making DNA testing for parentage compulsory because of the high levels of FAILURES they certainly would face, particularly amongst the IN HOUSE BREEDERS (never venture out of their own kennels for any mating) who can state any sire in their kennel to any dam in their kennel on any mating they do. Many of these breeders are probably KC members also. Mind you these IN HOUSE BREEDERS will continue to harp on about outside attraction at GSD shows, simply to detract attention away from theri own breeds underbelly. We in GSD fail to focus our response to those attacking our manner of presenting our dogs at their very best with STATIC outside attraction. We should very clinically and very thoroughly select other breeds and PILE PRESSURE ON THEM targeting their underbellies. PRESSING FOR COMPULSORY DNA TESTING FOR PARENTAGE WILL MAKE MANY OTHER BREEDS SHIT THEMSELVES. they may then learn to be VERY CAREFUL about provoking our wrath.

I totally agree that there should be a minium of hip/elbow scoring and dna before progeny are eligible for registration, but of course the KC will not favour this as they will miss out on monies gained from registration fees. Other countries insist on this such as the Australian KC, Sweden, Denmark etc so why cant the UK KC. Plus as we all know certain vets recomend non submission of plates if scores are predicted being high or if the dog/bitch is not going to be bred from, as far as I am concerned these vets are as bad as those that dont score and should be fined for not submitting.

hello everybody,

As a new GSD association/club we adopted the german methods of starting to take X-rays of elbow and hips, our main concern was the vets that are going to take and then analise the xrays(the vets in question are those at the faculty of vetenery medicine here in İstanbul) ,therfore we have decided to have them go to german for extra education on these matters,do we all agree that the german way of scoring is the best method or is there countries that are doing a better job.

any input will be most welcome,

emir ali sadaghiani

2007 breed warden

Alman Coban Kopekleri Dernegi (Turkish German Shepherd Association) ACKB