PEDIGREE's of WELL know GSD's that carry the blue and liver gene - Page 1

What is the difference between fact and opinion? --we ask our elementary school children.

Just because it is in print does not make it a fact. I see no verification of sources on this list on dilute carriers, no valid references of information--- just a list. Is this a collection of rumors and guesses? If not, please tell us how was this information was collected? Gossip mongering? I'm all for revealing everything in the pedigree, but I am very against people taking some text on the Internet as gospel. I get emails about this all the time, and people believe every word on it. A quick trip to the Urban Legends website and www.snopes.com can enlighten a person so helpfully! Hummm...perhaps I'll check those myth busting sources concerning this list!    Veronica

Veronica, maybe if you had a grain of sense, you'd check out the rest of the website. Some of the people providing information actually had the balls to post PEDIGREES. And if you look at the pedigrees, you will see that the vast majority of the dogs in them for which the colors are known were nice normal sables or B/T's.

Liver and blue colors are such a hot-button issue that I'm sure there are still breeders out there who prefer to make an off-color pup 'disappear' rather than let it be known their dogs are {GASP!!} carriers of the dreaded genes.

I am extremely glad to see this information being made public, and I am sure there are ways to verify it, such as the AKC and SV records.

If it weren't for the egos and big bucks involved, maybe we could also get this info for more dangerous genes, such as epi and mega-e.

Ah, good for her!

In the works is a new Health & Genetics site with information on issues such as Hemophilia A, achalasia, and more.

And anyone submitting a pedigree must also provide photos of their dog, as proof of its color.

I am willing to say I have been incorrect or not deserning enough, if that is the case.  It is my nature to be suspicious of those things that are not well documented, but presented as concrete fact.  I don't have time to study this website presently, it is too late.  However, in glancing through the website, I still do not see any documentation of how some of these many dogs were labeled to be sure carriers of these colors or diseases.  Just publishing a pedigree doesn't do it.  When you go back past the parents and grandparents, the sheer numbers of ancestors and the weight of years would seem to make some of these claims very difficult indeed to substantiate.   Please enlighten me with your dump truck load of sense as compared to my grain of it on how we can be sure that all of these names are indeed as proven.    Here is an interesting example, and probably important to know if you are linebreeding, or back massing on it, as it is in many pedigrees:  "Canto vd Wienerau SchH2-prod blue, also was hemophiliac. "

Veronica

You seem pissed off, oleos93, and I'm not sure of what's going on or why you started this thread.  I agree, the dog with perfect genes has not yet been born, and probably never will be. 

Move over Veronica, I guess I belong on the short bus too because I don't see where this info is verified either!  Anyway, it is true, dogs throw incorrect coats and liver or blue colors and these conditions are  considered serious enough faults that the animal is DQed.  I hope breeders don't make it a practice to destroy these dogs and instead alter them and place them in pet homes.  I don't think I would accuse any one of such a thing unless I knew for a fact it happened.

      Here again, is my boy "BLUE",(i know, very original). It is a "FACT", that his lines ARE listed in the dilute database,obviously, on both sides. When I bought my dogs almost 20 years ago, I didn't even know about "blue shepherds", in fact  when Blue was born, I thought some other dog had visited my house in the night. Does his color make him any LESS an AKC German Shepherd? No, it don't. As far as temperment goes, you could not find a better dog. Have I gotten other blues, yes I have. I sell them as pets. Do I charge outragious prices for my blues. No, I don't. I have told anyone interested in them that it is a disqualifying fault as far as German Shepherds go. Do a great deal of people who see him tell what a beautiful dog he is? Yes, they do. I think there are alot more people, at least in my area, that are looking for great pets, not show or schutzhund dogs.

     Aside from his color, what could you say is wrong with this dog?

Genetic diversity is how species stay alive.  If all of a species were identical then the species dies out at the first stressor to challenge it.  With genetic diversity some dogs are more capable of disease resistance, some more tolerant of food shortages, etc.  Color genes are useful for providing wild animals camoflage.  If the predominant trees are white, white colored moths have the advantage...gray moths have the advantage in a forest of mostly gray trees. 

With our human created breeds of dogs we have created a mess of disease by concentrating our breeding on superficial traits (ie: color).  These breeds are man supported (optimal feeds, vaccines, antibiotics) and lack natural selection.  Generations of selection of breeding stock based on the color of a dog will lead to serious health, skeletal & behavioral problems.

The fact genetic variation occurs in our breed thrills me.  Having a popular or well known dog that carries a gene for white, blue, whatever...doesn't not deter me.  Having someone exploit that gene (already deemed as faulty) is what i have trouble with.  There is not an advantage to the dog to be a dilute color, in fact I know with blue dobermans their coats are very hard to keep up and require supplemental support well beyond regular dog foods.

People have their personal likes and dislikes and should have exactly what they want in their dogs.  I do not believe we should concentrate our breedings on purposely creating things outside the standard.  My worry is when we select for color we also select against genetic diversity including health & temperament. 

Hi Guys!

Did anyone notice any DDR GSD's on the dilute list?,

maybe I'm blind or something, I don't think I noticed any..............

Ok,

Day two....  Oleos,    I wanted to say on the other thread that I did not believe color had anything at all to do with a dogs performance and I dont believe the myths about defects in blue or livers.  I also would like to stay positive and not try to bash anyones views.   I have been to the Sahiela2 website before and found it without merit, no registration numbers and no reference's of any kind.   I agree dont believe everything you find on the internet, that would be a shame.

I also agree that these genes are present in dogs you wouldn't suspect and are hidden by breeders.   One day the costs of DNA studies will come down and much more will be known and available to everyone.   Maybe they should do the same thing with humans..lol

I believe nature will sort it out on its own anyway.   

Oleos you have opened the door, be ready for what comes knocking.   Just my way of saying good luck.

Brent.