UK Hip average - Page 3

beepy: as an anonymous entity on here you have no right to make any reference to what I do or do not do. You disclose your name and your own KC breed affix, and website, THEN I will respond. In the meantime take great care to totally avoid any personal references, when NONE can be reciprocated.

As yet I have not bred any litters and will not have crossed your radar.  It is however my wish to go into this area in the future.

I do however feel that you wish the KC to do one thing when you actively seek scoring elsewhere.

To clarify my earlier statement regarding the Kennel Club's Accredited Breeder Scheme's Health Screening Requirements - visit here.  http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/download/1100/abshealthreqs.pdf  Yes I fully understand the requirements of the system to become a registered breeder with the KC.  But seeing as there are numerous breeders out there with no care for health screening of any kind, whether they have bred 1 litter or 100, I guess its hard to set a rule as to who should and shouldnt be allowed to join.  Although I suppose its a bit like the increasing standards set by the driving agency - if you go in passing and meeting all the new standards, you are attempting to be better than the driver who was given his license years ago, who passed a minimal test. - Who is to say what is right or wrong.  I have to say that I think breeders should be nominated and not allowed to buy their way in.  I can say that the some of the breeders I know give so much support that they should be recognised for their achievements, and not made to pay for some scheme that Tom, Dick and Harry buy their way in.

beepy: Your lack of knowledge and experience is very apparent. You know little or nothing about most aspects of breeding GSD or exhibiting GSD, yet you feel able to debate and pass comment and judgement without many facts or much knowledge. Sadly you are an example of modern British newbies into our breed scene. Know very little but assume all. You may one day understand why many breeders in the UK use the SV hip scheme, and not the BVA/KC scheme out of preference. You may one day undertsand the SV Zuchtwert (ZW) which is an integral pand very important part of the SV scheme. You may one day understand all the requirements of the SV when exhibiting or qualifying a GSD under their rules and regulations. In the meantime try and learn about the UK GSD scene and KC systems and rules & regulations first, before you pass any judgement or comments on those who have vast knowledge and experience, frequently spanning 30 or more years, and those who were involved in hip scoring when it first became available.

I am not a newbie - I have owned a GSDs for over 30 years and suffered the trials and tribulations along the way.

I also see that there are some GSD's breeders out there who do both - you are the one who said the "If the KC had the balls or more" yet doesnt match their scheme.

I can happily state that all my dogs have been with me till their death and have never been rehomed, although we have regularly taken in other people's rejects!  Only one of wasnt hipscored and that was basically because the vet believed she wouldnt cope with the anesthetic required due to all her other health issues.

I have seen the good and the bad, with HD, DM, intenstinal problems, behavioural backlashes etc. to the extent that I have taken time to go and study genetics, behaviour etc so that I can put the best of my knowledge forward, as well as time to spend with potential purchasers and those who have purchased from me for the duration of the dogs life and hopefully more.  Much in the way that some breeders have had time for me.

As for involvement with hip scoring having seen my parents suffer the devastating loss of a puppy at only a few months from total malformation of hips, and as a result it is something that we have followed avidly and believe that hip scoring and other tests are the only way forward to prevent future damage to the breed.

I also understand that there is a requirement for the SV testing to show under the german rules, however I also see that many breed and show in the UK and feel that for that reason they should follow the UK scoring.  After all if the xrays are being taken here - its not hard to send a set of plates to the BVA and one to the SV.

beepy; forgive me if I see no point in debating this subject matter with you any further.

ros i understand what you are saying but what was meant to be a statistic has become a guideline...perhaps we need a better system 19 to me is high.

videx i totally agree with you re this issue but how do we change this? who do we speak to? i have tried speaking to the KC re hips and the so called accredited breeders scheme and all i get is the usual response( alot of umm's and arr's)

if the kc refused registration of litters with parents that have high scores then this might stop the byb's and improve the breed. the same with elbows etc.

tracie

Tigermouse - Im with you all the way - if we could get the KC behind it, things would improve.  It will be interesting to see if the study that they do into DM shows any links to high hipscores and if so maybe this would encourage them to do something.  I'd love to see the score down to 15 or even lower.

All I want is for things to improve for the breed, I recognise that there are different fields within the breed, the 2 sides of the british show scene, the international show scene, the shutzhund, the working lines, those used by the guide dogs, those seen as "pet" GSDs.  So on the health issues there should be no them and us it should be a whole - and then hopefully with a united front the GSD world can get the KC to make some hard and fast rules, but unfortunately until all breeders recognised the need for screening and results to be back before mating dogs - and not afterwards, sometimes years down the road there will be no way forward.  We also need a simple scheme that everyone both breeder/pet owner etc can understand not a different standard for different countries.

Also if there was a consistent standard I for one would find it easier when people admire my dogs and ask my to recommend a breeder I could do so more easily, and not have to spend so long explaining the different information that they find on pedigrees, or have to suggest they travel so far to one I can recommend, as often the breeders I know dont have litters or wont be having any for a long time.

tigermouse: The KC have attended conferences with Vets in attendance to discuss the BVA/KC hip scheme. When the issue of COMPULSORY HIP SCORING FOR BREEDING DOGS was requested by the Vets present, the Kennel Club quickly pointed out that it could NOT make such a BUSINESS DECISION which would, in their (KC) opinion, reduce registration revenue.
THERE WE HAVE IT - A BUSINESS DECISION
and let none of us forget the Kennel Club is a private members Club.
If the Kennel Club continues to behave with little regard to the health issues affecting pedigree dogs, and the basic necessity of IDENTIFICATION, DNA PARENTAGE TESTS, we should very seriously consider challenging their MONOPOLY on dog registration and licensed breed exhibiting here in the United Kingdom. We are European after all, I see no reason why the GSD (German Shepherd Dog) here in the UK cannot be administered by the SV in Germany in every aspect, registration, exhibiting, health issues, qualifications etc.

so what can we do?