OFA Fair Hip rating - Page 2

Folks can think what they want, but the facts remain that a fair number of GSD imported into the USA with the "a normal" SV hip rating have mild dysplasia when xrayed or penn hipped at two years old or greater.  I can't say for sure about A2 or A3 SV hip rated dogs when xrayed at two or older because I haven't seen any of those xrays for them at two years or older, but I don't see how they could have less statistical variance.  Putting your head in the sand won't help the breed any. Ignorance and feelings is no substitute for knowledge.  In actuality, it always comes down to any specific GSD and how they xray at 2 years old and later as they age. Heritability estimates are probabilities and the specific animal can get a unique gene combo transmitted to him, a polygenic set of at least five recessives which can stack the deck for or against hip cleaness.

I find the high frequency of DJD in elbows (which is anything less than A normal) in West German blooded GSDs appalling.  It is now well known by researchers that elbow health requires much more careful selection and that means best to use only a1 normals elbows for breeding GSDs.

Yes, family tree hip health frequency is important in the probability of any specific GSD producing clen hips even if his are very clean, but it is only an estimate.  It always depends on whether the dog is dominant for clean hips or not and what mate he is bred to.  As many now realize for certain, VA Esko Danischen Hof was a dominant producer of clean hips and this came from the dominance for clean hips of his dam's line which was transmitted to and through him.

Held and mirasmon, rather than spouting belitteling comments, how about stating rational reasons for disagreeing with me.

"The score of "Fair" is interpreted by the O.F.A. to be "suspicious of hip dysplasie" meaning that it could worsen to the end that it develops degenerative joint disease, essentially arthritis."

Where does OFFA say that Fair is suspicious of HD?

OFA States " Do not ignore the dog with a fair hip evaluation. The dog is still within normal limits. For example; a dog with fair hips but with a strong hip background and over 75% of its brothers and sisters being normal is a good breeding prospect. A dog with excellent hips, but with a weak family background and less than 75% of its brothers and sisters being normal is a poor breeding prospect". I have no problem breeding a dog with fair hips or to a dog with fair hips as long as the vertical pedigree is good. I also believe that OFA ratings are some what subjective. I would just as soon look at the dogs xrays than just its rating. A fair hip is a normal hip not dysplastic

Ditto, B. Anderson. I've seen way too many OFA errors over the years to place alot of confidence in their evaluations. I had 2 dogs magically go from mild HD to OFA goods within 2 months.  Show me the x-ray.....

I believe OFA considers a borderline hip to be suspicious of being dysplastic and suggests another evaluation at a later date. They also say that the mojority of borderlines do not reecive an OFA clearance when re-evaluated. They will most likley be rated as mildly dysplastic.

OFA Fair is an acceptable rating that is free of dyspasia.

You need to see the xrays.... positioning can change everything.

What I resent is the SV telling us our elbow x-rays through OFA are not acceptable for their Koers!!!  I have been doing the OFA certification of elbows on my dogs for 20 years!!!!  Long before they ever required it, and now that isn't good enough.

Oh, well.  Both organizations are giving in to them.

I think it has to do with OFA elbows not being graded beyond normal or fail, unlike SV. 

Sorry, please disregard my last post.  I didn't realize OFA had 3 grades below normal, basically same as SV.

HighDesertGSD, somewhere in the O.F.A. descriptions of grading you will find the statement about "suspicious for hip dysplasie." It has been a long time since I read that statement, but I do remember it well. It may have been removed from their literature.

What the statement means to me is that "Fair" is not absolutely clear of suspicion for hip dysplasie as it is the lowest passing score, and of course the next lowest score is "Borderline" which is a failure. Perhaps it "lets them off the hook" so to speak if the dog becomes dysplastic later in life. And the word "dysplastic" means "not normal" and of course normal is absolutely free of hip dysplasie.

When we consider a dog to be absolutely free of hip displasie we are usually critiquing the quality of the joint construction. But there is more to it than that. Think of this scenario: a young dog recieves an O.F.A. "Excellent" at the age of twenty-four (24) months. At the age of sixty (60) months he is re-evaluated and graded as dysplastic because he developed degenerative joint disease (DJD), essentially arthritis. The quality of his joint construction did not change, but he developed DJD which will cause a failure. In essense, his hips are no longer normal.

I think it stands to reason that when a dog's hip joints are more correct or "normal" that he has much less chance of developing DJD.

Best Regards,

Bob-O