** 3 different stands ( Pics), which do you prefer ** - Page 3

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by waleed786 on 09 November 2017 - 20:11

Centurian i have to disagree with you somewhat. The actual reason why i posted the pics was to show the varied likes/tastes each individual has, be it natural stand, stetched or over stretch.

You say 'you have to understand structure- and I am of the very large impression that you do not understand'.. That i found very amusing. That fact that i loaded 3 pics , you are able to ascertain that I dont know structure is mind blowing...lol.

The only way to get a perfect pic is to get magicon, steve gish and the like to do what they do best which is make a pic faultless...

by Centurian on 09 November 2017 - 22:11

Waleed
If you know the GS ideal structure .. I am happy for you .

However , I was using the thread to make people that want to evaluate their dog's structure via position and for people that may have interest in showing. And I continue , in a monent so they that are new , understand. But If you wanted to know what standing position people prefer - you should have asked that. If you wish to know what factors are best in the picture itself then you should have asked that . If you wanted both then you should specifically asked that you are looking for both.

The thread reads ; ** 3 different stand [pics] , which do you prefer. The word stand can easily be mistaken /construed to mean 'stack' [ not everybody's native language is English ] . In two of those pictures you 'stack ' the dog. It is easy to think then of 'stack as oposed to a simple different way of standing. Given that anyone that wants to demonstrate the best , in structure , of the dog and wants to show the best qualities of the dog, e.g expression , pigment etc. etc , they show the dog in a ' stack ' position . The stack position helps best to 'demonstrate ' the BEST ANATOMY of the GS . And the other barometer that goes in hand with a static stacked position and that is equally important  is ' the MOVEMENT '. I would declare that the movement is even more important than a stack/ standing postion in a picture because it is the movement that reveals validation of the structure. And if you understand structure , then I refrain from explaining to you [ others can PM me for explanation if they opt ] . Why do you think the handlers in the shows stack the dog and let the judge see their dog in that stack ? Because .. that is the best position to show the best in the dog . Why do you think that most all the advertisements show the dogs in a stack position ? As far as .. 'what people like' of a dog's position in a picture... maybe ... just maybe that would be the best position to take a picture of your dog - a stack ? Why would someone prefer a picture of a dog , in anything but a stack , unless they just want a fun picture of the dog you have- In that case any ol' picture would do and you could simply ask what pictures you like .

Now I didn't think you understood structure of that dog in the pisture because the way the dog presented in three different photos. ... Also because IMOp if you did understnasd structure you would never have asked that question ! You would have known which picture is better .... Most people wouldn't be asking anyone alse their opinion. I was not , with intention being critical of you ... but look at the thread from the readers point of view. I was making a commentary so others can take it or leave it - hopefully learn something from it.

  To add , as far as photography is concerned, if possbile , aside from a picture a video of the dog moving , would be much much much beter than a dog standing in 3 ways.  And IMOp if you truly truly truly had ther utmost comprehension of anatomy /structure , undrestood structure ... if you had the ability to upload a video , you would most certainly have done that instead.   That also is something a novice should be aware of. 


by waleed786 on 10 November 2017 - 07:11

' And IMOp if you truly truly truly had ther utmost comprehension of anatomy /structure , undrestood structure ... if you had the ability to upload a video , you would most certainly have done that instead. That also is something a novice should be aware of'

What a totally ridiculous statement , I am now even more gob smacked, lol. So let me get this straight. If one understands structure one should rather upload a video instead of a picture? How totally absurd......

Centurian, I certainly hope you do not have access to social media platforms as you will probably cringe should you see pics loaded by 'top breeders' around the world standing their dogs...

as mentioned, the purpose of this thread was to highlight that 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder'...

yogidog

by yogidog on 10 November 2017 - 09:11

In order to to see and successfully understand the structure of a gs movement is very important to watch as each part of the dog moves efficiently and without effort that's the main reason for a video I don't normally stack a dog myself I will always take a few photos of the dog as he is walking I hold the lead and stay behind him I find u will c the through line and structure of your dog instead of pulling and trying to tweek each limb. I'm not a SL owner I own WL but no matter which is your preference structure is as important as drives colour and temperament. imo

Baerenfangs Erbe

by Baerenfangs Erbe on 10 November 2017 - 12:11

3rd picture.

by Centurian on 10 November 2017 - 12:11

Waleed ,
YES !! If one wants to evaluate their dog , they want to show people the structure of their dog... the movement is the litmus test.
Again , for people trying to understand. In life and as in a picture , if a dog is standing , certain structural faults can be masked. As a matter of fact , that is why in the show they wanted to make a change: as the handler stacked the dog , the handler was to be away from the dog. The handler could also in some faults aid the dog to mask them while standing.

Unlike a dog standing , the movement cannot so easily mask the faults. And then again , that is not always absolute either because if you understand the structure then in some faults you can create illusions and try to mask those in movement too. However , the ability to mask is more difficult than just having the dog stand for some faults . Yes , movement shows what your dog is made of much better then a photo. A video would be better to present your dog. Waleed if you cannot understand this - you are hopeless.

Some people become very experienced and knowledgable and can make certain assessments from either the dog simply standing or simply walking. Yogi may have a very very well developed eye and can do that ..For many many people it takes a long tome to develop the ability to "see" what they are looking at. Understanding structure takes time and experience .
BTW Waleed , many people read the standard of the GS... but reading the standard does not mean you understand or comprehend structure. A person does not read , memorize data , and all of a sudden they comprehend structure. Reading the standard , is just a starting point. Bottom line... beyond that you have to look at many many many GS , compare and contrast and know how to evaluate movement. You just don't get this from reading a book.

Beauty might be in the eye of the beholder , but structure is not .. it either is or it is not correct . Either the movement is this or that , but not both.

Waleed , you are right ..... many top breeders have lousy pictures of their dogs. And I often am astounded by that . Many adverisements have losy pictures too ... For which amazes me also.

I learned a lesson years ago . I had a 2 x 2 foot picture of 2X VA 1 World Sieger of Larus Vom Batu and owned two of his progeny . My friend a SV Judge visited me . I told him how much I liked Larus and showed him the picture . He said quote : " Centurain , [as he laughed] he looks nothing like that". That was Larus in all his glory in the most stunning form in the most stunning picture. His meaning to me was that the picture did not show his faults. I knew structure back then Waleed,,, but that is when I truly started to learn about pictures that are presented. So you my think Beauty is in the eye of the beholder , but so isn't deceit. Pictures are worth a thousand words ... and some of those words, at times , are lies.


Sunsilver

by Sunsilver on 10 November 2017 - 13:11

Centurian, I, too, have been gobsmacked from time to time by the horrible pictures people sometimes put in their advertisements! Here's one that's a perfect example of what NOT to do when showing off your nice sable GSD for sale....

 

An image


by Centurian on 10 November 2017 - 13:11

Sunsilver.... You made me laugh today ... :-) ohhh boyyyyy

I don't know about people. ..... Having a Psych degree .... I am coming to the conclusion ... that I understand dogs much better than people . Seems in this case... the dog is a little smarter than the person taking the picture ..
This reminds me of those husbands that come up with a brain storm idea and when they implement that idea.. all hell breaks loose. Holy Moly .... Sunsilver .. where ever did you find this ?? This one for sure takes the cake . I am laughing so hard... And I think ... people like this that own GSs are too dangerous for their own good .. HAAAA

All kidding aside ... Perhaps someone was just doing agilty and the picture was snapped of the dog.. who knows. 


Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 10 November 2017 - 15:11

Sunsilver, that looks like she just wanted to 'snap' the puppy, no intention to show it off or stand it properly or anything else. (That's not you hiding behind there, is it ?)  Very funny photo, though ! Teeth Smile

[It is ok, isn't it guys, just to picture dogs as dogs, for fun, yeah; doesn't always have to be a super serious attempt to convey perfect Breed structure, or anything ?  I realise the dBase is mostly for serious discussion and adverts - the place for 'fun' is probably FB or somewhere - but it doesn't hurt to lighten up occasionally !]

 

See, Waleed, I didn't think you were trying to 'say' anything more about your new bitch than "Which pic do people like best" ?  Not even "Which depicts the best way to stack (any) dog ?".

Dog knows, I spend enough time on here pointing out to readers that One Photo Does Not A Critique Make. Angry

There are plenty of arguments about what conformation means to physical performance, whether gait, or working agility and endurance - many of them contradictory.

For what its worth, I clearly do not 'understand structure' either since I prefer 2 over 3 (or  'natural' 1).  In my defence I would point out that my comments on the photos and the way the dog is standing all come from having stood dogs up for a Judge in an English Show ring (or three) so when I refer to getting the dog properly and comfortably balanced on its feet I am recalling  my experiences, and the methods I was taught; and they reflect what many of the 'greats' in our breed have written over the years. Also don't see the point in making a dog look as if it has a point in the middle of its spine when it doesn't need to.


Sunsilver

by Sunsilver on 10 November 2017 - 17:11

Hundmutter, no that's definitely NOT me! I have more sense than that, and actually took a few handling classes when I got my first registered dog. They tell you it's a Bad Idea to wear colours that blend in with the dog's coat... Teeth Smile

I collect funny pictures, and could show you a few more that illustrate what NOT to wear when showing your dog (or posing it for a photo).

This, for instance...  Omg Smile

 

An image

 






 


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