Is a healthy bred to standard red and black shepherd as elusive as a unicorn? - Page 1

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by lckw on 28 August 2016 - 12:08

Do any breeders actually breed to standard size or follow the health of the offspring into adulthood?

My search for a new family member is getting more and more frustrating. No breeder I have contacted either via their website or email contact has replied to my questions. Because we have run into health issues and sudden death at early ages with our last two shepherds we are naturally leery of health issues in the breed. My questions to the breeders have simply been to ask what genetic testing they do on the breeding pairs and what if any health follow up or history tracking do they encourage and/or maintain of the offspring they produce. In addition I have asked about the size of their dogs since that is rarely put on a bio unless it is to brag of being 'big boned' or 'extra large'. I am interested in staying true to the German Shepherd standard. I am also mostly drawn to the red and black but health and adherence to the standard is the priority. It seems I am asking for too much since no contacted breeder has replied.

Thus my question, is a healthy bred to standard red and black shepherd as elusive as a unicorn and if there is such a breeder do they only have pricing that equates to the Hope diamond?


Markobytes

by Markobytes on 28 August 2016 - 14:08

A well bred black and red should cost you $2,500-$3500. Some breeders may be too busy to answer your questions, if you don't see the health tests you are looking for on their website, chances are they don't test for those things. A breeder should answer you about testing, but the way you frame those questions might be a red flag to the breeder that you are going to be a problem. Questions asked in person or over the phone have less of a chance at being misconstrued. There are a lot of good breeders who only test for hip and elbow dysphasia that do follow the health, not only of the pups, but the dogs behind the pedigrees. I would caution you about placing any reliance on the DM test.


Markobytes

by Markobytes on 28 August 2016 - 14:08

http://www.instituteofcaninebiology.org/blog/genetic-test-for-juvenile-renal-dysplasia-is-flawed I would caution against the over reliance of health testing. It can be a sign that the breeder doesn't know what they are doing


by lckw on 28 August 2016 - 14:08

markobytes I appreciate your comments and I do want to say I am aware of the pricing. I would also like to reiterate that my questions have all been of the very generic type and what would seem very reasonable for inquiry of such a purchase. I do not ask questions in any sort of accusatory manner but only in an effort to understand a breeder's particular breeding philosophy or practice. Since most buyers may be under the false impression that a 'health guarantee' is actually a guarantee of health I am thinking that breeders don't need to give time to buyers who may want more of an understanding regarding the health history and breed standard of the litters. I would love to be proven wrong and find the unicorn I am apparently seeking.

Markobytes

by Markobytes on 28 August 2016 - 15:08

You come across in your postings very well lckw, you have remained positive and I have no doubt you worded your questions appropriately. I threw those things out just for your consideration, I did not know what you thought was too high a price. I think you are going to take the time to make a good decision, I wouldn't necessarily discount those that don't answer your emails. I would follow up with a call to the breeder. What a website won't tell you is how a breeder handles what could be genetic problems in their lines. They won't advertise what kind of investigation they have done and they won't advertise that they have removed a dog from their lines that might be suspect. But they may be upfront in a personal conversation. I believe the power rests with the buyer as long as they are patient.

Koots

by Koots on 28 August 2016 - 15:08

I believe that Tracy Bullinger (Bullinger GSD) has bred dogs that lived a long, long time. One of her foundation dogs Brew, lived to 15 yrs, IIRC. Tracy breeds to the SV standard, so titles all her dogs as well as endurance test, etc. I do not know for sure what other health testing she does, you will have to ask her yourself, but if I was to buy a German Show Lines dog it would be from her.

by lckw on 28 August 2016 - 16:08

Thanks Markobytes and Koots for your information, help, and support. I appreciate it greatly.

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 28 August 2016 - 16:08

Depends where you are, Ickw. My last dog (up until July '15) was a show-bred, black & gold, standard coated, male - bred as such, by a show kennel, producing kennel club registered animals 'to the Standard'. He lived - healthily - until 11&1/2 years; the worst he ever had wrong with him was an attack of Bloat (GDV), which he was operated on (age 9) and recovered from successfully. His hips were good (3:3 - equivalent to German A stamp, not sure about OFA, whether that would count as Good or Excellent); his elbows were never Xrayed but they never gave any problems either; he was Haemophilia clear. He did not have a 'hinge' in his spine, nor cowhocks. He was not tested in IPO or similar work / sport, but had what I assess as adequate drive for the work if he had been, he certainly had intelligence and a pronounced interest in ball games. His only constructional problems - and why he was not shown - were an overshot mouth, and being 0.5 cm over maximum height. No such thing as a perfect dog LOL. Like your recently deceased dog (I'm very sorry for your loss, by the way) it was his heart which gave out in the end; but only when he had lived to a reasonably ripe old age. Unfortunately this breeding would not be available today - his breeder herself died a half-dozen years ago - and would have been impractical for most using this site, since the kennel was in England. He was linebred on Mark v. Haus Beck and Uran v. Wildsteiger Land. So he was not everybody's 'dream dog' but he was certainly no unicorn either, and other dogs are no doubt coming into the world that are his carefully bred equivalent, you just have to find them !


susie

by susie on 28 August 2016 - 17:08

OP, take a look at "Understanding genetics..."

by gsdstudent on 29 August 2016 - 12:08

OP; Get off of the internet and go to trials and training clubs to meet people in your area who have dogs that peak your interest. Go touch some dogs!





 


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