White Shepherd > Please tell me about the ''White Shepherd'' in your country (12 replies)
Please tell me about the ''White Shepherd'' in your country
by Trulywayside on 24 July 2008 - 12:17
|Hello, I am a German Shepherd enthusiast based in England, who breeds and trains White German Shepherds as well as Standard Conformational German Shepherds. Currently in the United Kingdom, White or Long Coat German Shepherds are not allowed to be exhibited with our Kennel Club, just as it is in the fatherland of Germany. We only have one designated club, known as the White and Long Coat German Shepherd Society. This club enables us to exhibit our beautiful White and Long Coat German Shepherds, however it does not entitle Championship status or definitely proves the worth of the dog. I am entrigued to see how the White German Shepherd has developed in other countries. I wish to understand why its breed title has changed numerously e.g. White Shepherd, Canadian White Shepherd, Berger Blanc Suisse etc. I am also fascinated with Sieger Shows that are held in Germany for the Berger Blanc Suisse and many dogs that are titled with Schutzhund qualifications. I am also proud to know that some English Bred White German Shepherds have made the grade overseas - oozing our traditional Kingsmeadow and Blinkbonny bloodlines. I look forward to hearing your replies. Kind Regards, Allessandria Sivori|
by delacruz germanshepherds on 27 July 2008 - 16:06
Here in the USA the White Shepherd can be shown in Conformation under UKC ( United Kennel Club ), I do not have the Whites I have Longcoat GSD'S and show them under UKC Conformation.
I do love the White Longcoat Shepherds and would like to Own one but they are very hard to come by here in the US ,
by Ceph on 29 July 2008 - 19:19
Hey - I imagine things in the United States are not much different than those in England. Here most whites are still registered as German Shepherds with the AKC as the American Kennel Club does not recognize the White (Swiss) Shepherd Dog, and German Shepherds who are White cannot be shown in the AKC. The exception to the rule would be those of us who have and have plans to import - those dogs are not nor can be registered with the AKC.
Here we have an organization called the American White Shepherd Association - it is a club dedicated to seperating the White Shepherds from the German Shepherd and earning them recognition not only in the AKC but accross the world. Those of us who are members and breeders in AWSA follow the AWSA standard -- which is different than that of the German Shepherd Dog -- AWSA offers conformation shows for that particular standard as well. . AWSA just recently motioned to accept dogs with FCI pedigrees - which makes me happy because I really want to incorporate alot of the european lines into my program. While most AWSA dogs are still AKC German Shepherds - there are those with imports and a few others who are interested in letting the AKC registration fall by the wayside in their lines and going only with the AWSA and UKC registrations.
Currently what is stopping the separation movement is that the AKC has stated that the GSDCA must give us permission to seperate and strike the white coat from their standard -- even though the majority of GSD owners dont much care for the whites (and thats putting it lightly...I've had people come up to me and tell my my dogs should have been killed at birth) the GSDCA will not allow this. So we are the red headed step children that they dont want but wont get rid of.
We also have the United Kennel Club -- it is a second national kennel club though not recognized as the national club by the FCI (even though they recognize most of the FCI breeds....where the AKC only recognizes a portion). The United Kennel Club recognizes the White Shepherds as their own seperate breed and also accepts the W(S)SDs as WSDs. The UKC offers conformation and performance sports that our dogs can compete in as White Shepherds.
And then there is the FCI - who provisionally recognized the W(S)SD (Berger Blanc Suisse in French) as a breed seperate from the German Shepherd in 2002. Their lines were build mostly from american and english white german shepherds, though there were a few european lines as well. I havent the foggiest idea how the FCI does shows - lol - its beyond me - I do know that the W(S)SD does not compete in the SV Shows because the SV is al German Shepherd.
As far as the names - they all started out as German Shepherds. In the 30's whites were barred from registration in the SV (and thus the FCI) and in general, but for a few lines, the allele for white was essentially discarded with selective breeding and culling. In the 60s the AKC disqualified the white coat from the show ring - prior to then it was a very popular color with several dedicated breeders -- after the DQ took place they banded together and the color continued to flourish. Because the majority of the white coated GSDs were located in the States and Canada, they were called American-Canadian White shepherds when the first ones found their way to Europe via Agathe Burch...and some english lines soon thereafter. So by this point you have White German Shepherds and American-Canadian White Shepherds. In 1994 a number of breeders split from the White German Shepherd Clubs in the United States to form AWSA -- which is how the name White Shepherd came along -- again -- they were no longer for reconcilliation with the German Shepherd but rather separation. In 2002 the FCI recognized the American-Canadian White Shepherds as the Berger Blanc Suisse (White
by Ceph on 31 July 2008 - 03:57
Swiss Shepherd Dog) and the name American-Canadian White Shepherd essentially faded away. So now the used names are White Shepherd Dog, White Swiss Shepherd Dog, and White German Shepherd Dog. I tend to consider the first two the same thing -- mainly because they both share a similar standard seperate from the GSD...while the former tends to want to remain a part of the GSD and thus upholds that same old standard.
I think all three of them can do all the same things as the German Shepherd dog -- I just tend to feel that the standards of the WSSD and WSD lend themselves to less personal interpretation and more functional structure - which is why I tend to prefer them.
I think there was more to this post...but clearly it got cut off....woops...sorry I ddint notice that earlier!
by Trulywayside on 01 August 2008 - 17:22
|Thank you to all of the replies, especially Cate. I find it very interesting that they are all the same at one point and how they have now progressed in other countries to a finer standard. You all definitely have support from a club in that country also.|
by Trulywayside on 01 August 2008 - 17:35
|I feel that the White German Shepherd should remain - as in our country the majority are larger, heavier boned with very laid back temperaments. Some people do prefer this type but personally, I would like better construction and a working temperament. However, in the UK, our dogs do have good conformation, but obviously not as good as some of their coloured counterparts. Being a fancier of the international German Shepherd, I do believe in siegers, show grades and qualifications. I think that other fanciers of the White Shepherd are doing a fantastic dog training their dogs aswell as showing them successfully. I would like to gain more understanding of what happens across the continent, and so that is why I asked, resulting in inputing to our own White GSD Club what we could improve. I would love to go to a show in Germany, or surrounding country, to see what actually happens at the shows. Sieger shows are just the best - and one for the whites would be extremely interesting to see. I would also like to show one of mine! Is it possible for me to attend a show with a White German Shepherd??? I think that a Swiss should actually enter crufts - as when imported to our country - they are registered as a White German Shepherd. So if alot of people enter, they will be competing in the German Shepherd class which would also be interesting to see. Well, I think that it is possible. Once again, thank you Cate and Delacruz! I would of liked a few more replies from the European side of things but I suppose it is hard to put all knowledge into a post. Will keep hoping for a few more anyway! Allessandria|
by Conquistadores on 25 August 2008 - 12:51
What an interesting topic. My wife and I bought in 1994 our first White American/Canadian Shepherd. We bought him from a guy who imported DUCO his parents from Canada. By that time we lived in Holland. This dog did not had a lay back character at all. We lived near the center of Amsterdam,and in that period of time criminality rates where climbing,and DUCO was the one and only reason nobody managed to break into our house. Also in that time it was possible to go with your WHITE SHEPHERD to a Dutch exposition and have your White Shepherd dog be registered as a White Swiss Shepherd Dog.Just before we emigrated from Holland to Spain we bought our second white shepherd.SEM This one had no pedigree,not even a book from the vet of all the vaccinations he should have had with the age of 5 months. This dog was offered to us..... If we would not have taken this male with us,than he would have ended up in a Belgium pound.......and that is not the best place to be for such a young dog to be.....In Spain there are so few White SWISS Shepherds that it is still possible to make a first registration for a White SWISS Shepherd. So we made a first registration for SEM. He has a pedigree as a White Swiss Shepherd Dog. Now we have in total 7 White Swiss Shepherd Dogs in our home.
The first six all are short coated dogs who have White American/ Canadian ancestors. The last one is a long coated dog with all European ancestors. We have been searching very long for a good charactered long coated dog. With good quality and charactered we mean a healthy vigilant family dog that has an open character,and you can use for almost every discipline. We bought the long coated dog for several reasons,but the main reason was that at the European Int. Shows my wife and I got the feeling that we had entered the ring with a total different breed than the WSSD. Not only in appearance but also in character.
That was extra noticeable when we imported a dog from Brazil. Thank God his parents had that ridiculous SWISS in their pedigree,so we where able to import our dream White Swiss Shepherd. This SWISS shepherd has only American ancestors. Those lines we prefer the best,but that is pure a personal opinion.
With us a lot of Spanish and other European judges share that opinion. CONAN as we named this dog has entered in 2008 10 International European Expositions....... 10 times an Excellent Nr 1 with 4 times Best of Breed. At the Expo that was the Obligatory Point for the Spanish Championship CONAN became Best of Breed. That day the judge was Mr Hans Müller,President of FCI.
He commented that our CONAN had exactly the body shape of 12:10 according to FCI standard 347,and that his movement was one of the best he ever had seen.He also told us that to his opinion a lot of WSSD here in Europe where to short,too heavy build and that a lot of long coated dogs he had seen had a too thick and too heavy coat.............I never agreed with anybody that much,ever before...:-)
Funny no, that an all American gets the title Best of Breed White SWISS Shepherd Dog.
90 to 95% of ALL the registered White Swiss Shepherds in the southern European countries like France, Italy
by Conquistadores on 25 August 2008 - 12:53
90 to 95% of ALL the registered White Swiss Shepherds in the southern European countries like France, Italy, Portugal and Spain are long coated dogs. Heavily build males grow up to 40 - 45 kgs. When you compare the dogs we have with the majority of the European White Swiss Shepherds than ours seem more energetic,faster and to have a bigger "working" drive. The reason for that can be that we select the pups,that come into our Spanish kennel their parents if they have a working capability or not. Or that a very big percentage of all the European White Swiss Shepherd Breeders are trying to breed "the perfect family dog" as they call it.........One that helps the burglar packing..... Once I was at a French kennel and the owners told me that their vision was to try to breed a White Swiss SHEPHERD dog with a character of a Labrador or Golden Retriever.........,and this vision is shared by a lot of good quality European kennels of the WSSD.
Now,this very moment there is a big lobby, to change the FCI standard of the WSSD, going on. It seems there are going to be some changes soon in this Standard. The changes will be in physical aspects and character as we have been informed..... Now it still says: Utilization: Family and working companion dog with distinctive friendly nature to children; attentive watchdog, cheerful and quick to learn. We are anctious to see what FCI comes up with next.......
We are already holding on to our seats,so to say........First the give this breed the name SWISS...wile it where the Austrians and the Germans and the Dutch who should have gotten the credit for making this breed popular in Europe,and now they want to change something character wise?
Confused...??????.well we are.......
Werner and Mathilda from Spain.
by les gardiens du pacte on 04 September 2008 - 09:16
We are 100% agree with you.
White swiss shepherd is ABOVE ALL a SHEPHERD DOG, so a dog who must have a great character to work, it means intelligence, courage, vigilance, loyalty .... at least.
We have whites since 1989, and all our stud males were or are patrol dogs, very protective and courageous, with excellent abilities for biting, muzzle stricking, tracking.
We always test our females to bite training to keep the best abilities possible.
We sell puppies for police and K9 patrol, rubbish search, seeing-eye dogs .... So it's not impossible !! We are horrified to see that some breeders in France want to breed the white shepherd with labrador character ! What a stupid way to think, and to "detroy" the breed ...
We always said when we were fighting for breed recognition in France, that white shepherd was not only a beautiful dog, but above all a great working dog.
And it seems that the breed tighten to be just a "sofa breed" ....what's a pitty
We also like a much those american bloodlines, cause with the mi crossing with colored shepherd they have keep the basic temper of what a shepherd dog must be.
But that new FCI stupid rules considerably limited exportations possibilities.
We will fight (again) to change that soon.
Elevage des Gardiens du Pacte
by admirable on 08 September 2008 - 15:02
People send me requests that they want to buy a puppy from our kennel which is longcoated, very calm, house trained family dog who would have soft temperament and very easy to handle character. Well, I have to tell them I dont have anything like this. I think they would do better with a soft huggy toy dog not with a real shepherd dog. I like shepherd dogs that would be capable to serve as a shepherd dog also in real life. It does not mean it has to be decoy dog or drive crazy dog even though I like those:) But certainly it has to have personality and character and ability to work either in tracking or herding or why not best of those also in protection. I believe the white shepherd should be as the standard describes:
I think right now in Europe the breed just suffers because of its popularity. Every second person takes itself a White Swiss Shepherd and from these people every second suddenly starts breeding because everyone is asking for puppies. So there can be found dogs from very good quality to very poor quality both in exterior and of character not even mentioning the health. And I am not talking only about working ability but I am talking about with normal strength of character being able to live normal life. Most of the breeders concentrate only on exterior and a lot of them do strange matings just to get the long coat because as one of the breeders told me the longcoated puppies sell better:))) But at the same time jeopardizing the breeds health, character and working ability. I know that in few countries can be also found longcoated dogs with working character but not over here which is because of the breeding priorities set. I am sorry to say but I like the old version of white shepherd when they still were the working breed. And as we all know the longcoated gene is the recessive one so the normal coated shepherds are just disappearing. In some countries are left only longcoated dogs because of breeding only longcoated individuals. Well, I myself am waiting the time when the shortcoated and longcoated version would be separated maybe shortcoated ones would survive then:)
We have in our kennel two lines which we are going to carry forward in breeding and one of those lines are original USA lines and another ones mixed European breeding lines before the FCI reqognicion era and huge popularity when the puppy boom started. It is still possible to find from Europe good breeding stock amongst short coated dogs but because of the running longcoated popularity it does not seem to continue long enough....
For us the ideal White Shepherd is healthy strong vital animal, middle sized, middle boned, well muscled, with good instincts and will to work, calm at home but active and fast when working, that can be pushed and that takes stress and is capable to work long hours and that is not afraid of gun shots. Thats what we are up to when breeding our dogs.
Born to Win White Shepherds
by FlorChaverri on 28 September 2008 - 18:52
After now three years researching the issue of Berger Blanc Swiss, White Shepherds, White German Shepherds and going through a lot of breeders internet sites, I see only few differences some are long hair and others are small bone and long snouts and slim face close to Collies. But the same happens with the different varieties of German Shepherds.
I have long way to go understanding all this issues with White Shepherds classification names, but getting there. I have Eight of them and love them all.
by Ceph on 29 September 2008 - 19:07
Flor -- a basic history of the WSD in the USA is above in my post....and there is also a book called the White Shepherd published by kennel club books if you want more information on the WSD in the USA. I have additional historical links, as well as links to the standards -- which contain different bone angles, different requirements on movement, different coat type and color, as well as much more moderate angulation in the rear -- which helps to illustrate the differences between the WSD and the GSD. There is a difference in the structure...though you have to generally have a trained eye to see them.
by FlorChaverri on 01 October 2008 - 01:27
I have 6 White German Shepherds and I have 2 White Shepherds long hair from European lines. I can see distinctive differences. Body structure, meaning bones and face angulations. Symmetry it is the same, I do not have rear hanging legs. Mine are all very symmetrical. I will be more than happy if you e-mail me with the books and sources of information in this regard.