My IGP dog is afraid of the stick - Page 2

Valk,
Because I did not breed this dog NOR did I get it as a puppy we DON’T know if it’s a genetic issue. So please don’t assume.
The dog shows a great amount of nerve despite improper training/desensitizing between 1-2years and both my mentor and I can tell just from the short time we’ve been working with him that a lot of the issues he displayed were training issues and not genetic.
He’s not a fearful dog in general, not reactive, and adapts well. He’s a very calm and collected dog. What I consider one of the best temperaments I’ve worked with.

Today we worked more on desensitizing. We just started this yesterday and he is already accepting the stick, even showing less reaction when it’s held up above his head (he’s not shying away or trying to flee). Meaning he’s already adapting to it. And no I’m not forcing it on him, I’m allowing him to get comfortable at his own pace.

I’m well aware how genetics composition affects a dog, I have what I’d considered a weak nerved dog and I wouldn’t consider this dog nervy. He doesn’t just spook over random things and doesn’t feel the need to display himself.

While I’m never going to force and dog to be something it’s not, I think throwing the baby out with the bath water so to speak, this early on is not beneficial to me nor the dog.
He WANTS to work and Enjoys it. And until he stops enjoying what we do I’m not going to throw in the towel.

And just to be clear, I’m not the type of person who disregards genetics as a huge reason for a dogs temperament and nerve. I’m well aware of how important it is pertaining to their overall demeanor.
So I’m not saying that this ISN’T a genetic issue, but am saying that I personally don’t know for sure and just from my own experiences with him and what I was told. I’m leaning more towards a training fault or a mixture of the two.
It would be one thing if this was a puppy suddenly reaching sexual maturity and losing the puppy confidence or a shelter dog with an unknown background and behavioral problems.
But this is a working dog, with a known pedigree and known previous handlers that did suddenly shut down after a year of training under one handler.

So I try not to make assumptions but ya know.

Sounds like the dog was traumatized at one point and the stick is something that reminds him of it. You said he enjoys all other aspects of the work except when the stick comes out. If you can read him well I'd continue working him but not adding any stress or the stick for sure. Stick with the same helper and same field for protection if you do continue. Maybe after a long time where you feel he has improved and his confidence is good reintroduce more pressure in protection it and see how he reacts. As long as you are not breeding the dog and don't think he's a fear biter just have fun and don't expect a lot (Sounds like you are already doing a good job of this).

Definitely do scent work with him, tracking, trailing, nose work, whatever, just as long as it's not putting too much pressure on him. It can do great for dogs lacking confidence and will really build your bond and help you learn how to read him. RH titles would be something else to consider

curing:
Today we worked more on desensitizing. We just started this yesterday and he is already accepting the stick,

sorry, it doesn't work that way. dog either do or don't. and that comes with dog at the moment the dog was born. 
it's a dog's ability and willingness to stand up to and overpower threat.
everything else just artificially learned response to stimulus, destined to fail in real circumstances.
i understand how frustrating it can be, when dog do not met expectations. but that the way how mother nature works.
that your dog and you're free to teach him whatever you desire but as i see it - faking the dog's nature in competitive
sport training is cornerstone  in degradation of GSD breed as working breed of dogs.

On the money valk. I hate people covering up bad nerve and making excuses for weakness . It is what it is if you like the dog keep him enjoy him but get another dog to preform the task at hand without cover up . If nothing else be honest with the breed . Jmo

Respectfully,
I think I’ll trust that my mentor and I know my dog best and know what he’s capable of.
He’s worked and titled enough dogs to know whether or not a dog is going to be right for the sport. And is a very cut and dry person.


But then again he’s seen the dog work, and you haven’t.
He’s watched the dog evolve and grow from when I first got him and continues to see his progress.
So he is more readily able to make judgement on the dog then someone on the internet :).


Thanks to everyone else who actually had something to offer.
Appreciate all the help and suggestions.

This is a really nice dog with a spectacular pedigree. I just love his temperament and drive, so it’ll be a bit sad if he is washed from the sport, but I think he’d do great in anything we tried so no matter what I’ll have fun working him and growing.

I’ll try to update as we go along. We’ve just started really hitting training hard so it’ll be exciting to see him advance.

There is NO perfect dog...We all work thru problems while training...You only know what you'll get until you do it and see how it turns out...

~Bob~

Your dog could not have asked for a better person to be on the other end of the leash.  Have fun and enjoy the training time with your dog.  A good helper will do more for your dog than you can imagine.  Find one.   Working a stick shy dog is a basic skill that every helper should have learned and it should be second nature on how to fix it.  And so you know, a good helper starts with having the knowledge that you NEVER put a stick over a dog’s head who is still on a tug or rag and having previous issues.   Find someone who can read the dog.   I can only hope the helper saw the dog’s reaction and put the stick away.  Nothing screams poor helper work more than repeating the same mistake twice, especially on the same dog.

yogidog, I understand where you're coming from--and it is applicable when the practice is done so a dog that shouldn't be used for breeding because of that weakness can sneak through and title, especially when it's done with the intention to sell said dog to someone else who will never know of that cover-up work.

If SchH/IPO/IGP/whatever they'll call it next were still truly just a test of a dog's working ability as part of an assessment of breed-worthiness, then yes, I'd say that dogs with an ingrained weakness shouldn't be worked and trialed and titled. But that ship sailed long ago, and now it's not really a breeding suitabilty test; it's become a sport, with all that the term brings along with it.

In this case, Curing has said they acquired the dog with the intention of improving his skills as a trainer and handler--and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. No mention has been made of trying to title the dog so he could be sold or used for breeding--and now Curing has further explained that he really 'clicked' with this dog from the start, we know that the dog won't be going anywhere, regardless of whether he gets past this particular issue or not. If the dog enjoys the work, I see nothing bad coming from continuing to train him in the sport.

Curing, it warms my heart to read your answer to my initial question to you. Sounds like this dog is finally home and with the person he was meant for all along. Looking forward to following your progress together.

Thanks for the tip emoryg!
I actually am pretty new to the sport, have been doing it a little over a year but had a really great club before I moved so I think I put alot of trust into the helper there and club trainer there so didn't think much about that part of it and now im trying to learn more about that aspect of it so I can grown and be more knowledgeable.
This was the first time with this helper and I honestly was a bit Leary of him anyway, so tomorrow I'm going to be talking to my mentor about finding a new one or having him do it (he's a great helper but wasn't available to be one at the time I needed) He also understands my dog alot more so hopefully that will help.


Thanks so much for the encouraging words hexe, I'm really excited to see what he can do and can only hope I can do him justice and bring out the best in him :)

I'll 100% keep everyone updated as our journey continues, I see so much potential!