Are protection dogs more dangerous then untrained one? - Page 2

 

@Svarendu. It does not matter if the dog is "not trained protection" or just "not trained". In my post, I am talking about well-trained protection dog and since I have mentioned wifes and husbands and households it follows that I am talking about FAMILY  protection dogs and not about Junkyard dogs.

A WELL trained FAMILY dog trained protection for a family is always safer than the very same dog not trained at all or not trained protection CORRECTLY. Protection training does not teach the dog to bite. All dogs already know how to bite. It is then up to the trainer to select the genetically suitable dog for such training. One of the points is that dog not trained will bite whenever he thinks it is appropriate and does it without training where the dog who is trained to bite does it on command or when the situation requires it. Such a dog is actually less likely to bite improperly. I personally, amazingly enough, lol prefer WELL trained dog to untrained dog.   People who think otherwise should stop watching Lassie movies so much. 

Since people on the dog forum suggest that a dog which should be serving the purpose of protecting family who is an untrained dog is better and saferthan the same dog who is WELL  trained dog for family protection, makes me realize that this nonsense is more widespread then I have realized. 

protection dog vs same dog not trained protection or at all. I hope that answers your question.

A WELL trained dog trained protection WELL is always safer than the same dog not trained at all or not trained protection at all or not trained WELL ( CORRECTLY).

    The idea that proper training for PP makes the dog mean is preposterous and whoever says that should not be allowed to drive,.... or train dogs for that matter.

 

Yogi: What gives a bad rap is a badly trained dog. One with week nerve over ridden by drive. Environmental unstable. Unsolicited. And to make it even worse a handler that knows nothing about what he has because an experience handler would never take a dog like these. Most dogs that would be shiped off would be only seen on video and we all know how much covering up can be done to make a dog look sound. So if you as if a trained dog is more dangerous we'll there is my answer

Excellent !!!

Except the point of this thread is elsewhere. The point I am making is that all being the same well trained personal

 

protection dog of sound genetics is safer than the same dog who is not trained protection correctly. 

 

Another point I am making is that correct protection training does not make dogs mean or vicious, which seems to be a common belief. This has nothing to do with videos and so on. This is not about handler's qualifications which can be turned into another thread. This is strictly about the safety of a trained dog vs untrained dog.

Why on earth am I part of the problem?
What is your problem?

I supported your statement....I trained all my dogs, not because I don't know what to do but because I believe trained dogs are the better dogs..

But when you said :

"...example when I am selling a dog and am demonstrating it to the wife I always must first show that the dog is friendly with all family members preferably on the lovey-dovey level before I show protection capabilities of such dog."

I said "smart wifes" , and I explained why.

Once again for you: When a family is going to buy a dog ( "I am selling a dog" - your words, not mine; I don't sell dogs ) it's by far more important that this dog is social and stable than any "protection capabilities".
Any mother not asking first for proof of social behavior of the dog the family is interested in is stupid and irresponsible.

My son is "dog proofed" - a lot of children ( and owners ) are not.

Rather than trying to sell a protection trained dog to people who have zero knowledge and must be shown " lovey dovy " side of thedog, it would be better to advise them to get a small breed that is quick to bark when someone comes to the door. That's all they need is a dog to bark.
When people tell me they want a dog to stop an intruder and hold them till cops arrive, I tell them all that any one who wants to gain entry, even with a dog barking...all they need is one bullet to stop the dog.
The last mother who's husband works nights who called and told me she and her small children need protection, I recommended they get an Anatolian Shepherd and raise it with the kids. They have an acre fenced yard and wanted a dog outside to guard. I told her she just needs the dog to bark and give her time to get her gun.....she said she carries 24/7 ! I told her she does not need a" protection trained" dog, just a good alert dog that never misses a thing and is territorial....hense the Anatiolian..no training to alert needed, and they will bite when pressured and no buisy work needed (none of "the GSD needs  a JOB or else!" mantra with the LGB)

i agree with Joan in regard of "territorial alert and vocal" dog could make more sense for people, who's not advanced in dog handling.

in respect to PP dog for family, some complication will arise. major one - for real (not trained only to imitate protection) PP dog,
dog should have very strong dominance toward humans. thus this type not simple to handle and usually accept only one person
as a master to be obeyed. such dog could be tolerant to other family members but pretty often will make them feel uncomfortable
in his presence and will dictate them his own will.

the dog, who's lacking dominance trait, couldn't make real reliable PP dog. after being trained for PP, such dog can give feel of safety
but when shit happen, will fail to protect.
from what i see among proponents of family PP dogs, majority of their dogs not real protectors but rather psychological deterring argument.

Susie. Yes, I see that you are somewhat on my side. Thank you. But why do you think that it is smart from wives to be wrong about their perception of PP trained dogs as a vicious and dangerous dog? This is not about "asking for proof of sociability of a dog" which I have 0 problem with same as you. But this is about their PERCEPTION THAT ALL PP DOGS ARE VICIOUS and Dangerous.  I thought I made that clear. 

This is about " sides" ?

So Joan now you are going to dictate to your clients what to get? Anatolian shepherd?! You are kidding, right? You mean untrained Anatolian shepherd for dog ignorant people is that what you are recommending. Or while they are being stocked by a rapist, they should get a pup and wait for 2 years before it becomes protective - without training as you advise?!
Also to presume that people are born with an innate ability to handle a dog is interesting. Is that how you obtained the ability to train dogs? I do not think so. IMO all people interested in dogs need to learn somewhere how to handle a protection dog. I provide extensive lessons and continuous training. 
For example, I sell trained dogs to victims of violent crimes and they do not need chihuahua as you are suggesting. They need solid PP dog who will protect when the intruder returns and gives them some peace of mind for their PTSD. I also teach basic gun handling. I can give tens of other scenarios of people who are buying trained dogs for protection.
In any case, with all dues respect, I will repeat for the obtuse, that this thread is not about selling nor about handlers ability (you can start a new thread on this topic) but it is about if the trained dog is vicious or more dangerous then an untrained dog. So please do not insist on hijacking the thread.