Are civil dogs often hardheaded and unsuitable for Law enforcement? - Page 11

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by apple on 06 December 2017 - 14:12

Sounds like social aggression to me. I have said before, I think the Dutch have done a much better job of preserving the traits in their unregistered Mals and DS's. In Germany and the US, true social aggression is often looked at as a temperament fault. Consider the BH and the dog being required to sit in a crowd. It is not as much an issue of getting a dog with true social aggression to pass the exercise as it is the mindset that the SV/schH USA doesn't want dogs with social aggression. Holland is a small country with a different culture when it comes to working dogs. IMO, social aggression in GDS's is rare. Some people call GSDs that are overly defensive socially aggressive, but I think they are usually incorrect and social aggression has nothing to do with defensive aggression, which is the value of it. It is also a pain to deal with because such dogs cannot be around people unsupervised and have to be under obedience control or they will bite anyone outside their pack simply because they are not pack members.

by Staatsmacht on 06 December 2017 - 16:12

Sometimes i think people do not understand civil,hardheaded or dog for LE.

Someone was talking about UWE von der Heidenschanze. I bought this dog from Germany with 12month,the owner was fearful of him and put the dog into a boarding kennel.i heard about him and bought him. trained him for a while and than Christina tooked him over. You guys must realize that you have trainers that are smart enough to not go into that area where the dog starts to fight back, they keep him happy ,conflict free and can achieve a nice overall picture. does that mean the dog is not real? no it means someone is smarter. Uwe is a one person dog, he would make a great Street DOG but i do not really know any department that would buy a dog like this, i also do not know any Handlers that would buy a dog like him.
There is nothing wrong with a loyal one person dog that does not accept dumb corrections or crazy people around him.He has never ending drive in every area. he is high possessive and dominant. safe one every surface ,no trouble on open stair case,metal floor,mirrors on the floor or what ever.

he will make a great Stud but he will be never a family dog.Christina did a great job with training him and was smart enough to see that she will not challenge him and it was the smartest way for her life circumstances to give the dog back to me. With a dog like Uwe it is not the question if he bites you or get out of control , the question is when!

If you have any questions let me know and maybe some people should learn to respect that other people are smarter in achieving goals.

Baerenfangs Erbe

by Baerenfangs Erbe on 06 December 2017 - 16:12

THANK YOU, Stefan!

I was just about to say "Why would you put a dog into defense and tap into whatever is in there when you teach a new picture or something entire new to the dog?"

 

Why would you want to bring conflict into it? Why is it so shameful to keep a dog in prey? It's not! It's not bad, it's being smart! It's avoiding conflict on a higher level, conflict  no one needs. The helper doesn't need, the dog doesn't need and especially the handler doesn't need.

But hey... guess it's not cool enough to be smart about training...

by duke1965 on 06 December 2017 - 16:12

BE, there is a big difference between a dog that will not give you trouble , or a dog that will not give trouble because owner is smart enough to not let it happen(by that I dont mean dominate the dog, but avoid triggers)

Seen several Fado Lutter offspring like that type in holland and they are not for everybody,

 but there are lots of dogs with strong civil agression who dont have any problems towards their handler as well, so referring to topic they can be suitable for LE without any problem


yogidog

by yogidog on 06 December 2017 - 17:12

Be, your dog doesn't come across as having any handler problems. Smart training is vital with all dogs weather hard or sensitive that goes without saying but fight has to naturally in him. And at some point pressure has got to be put on him to see how he is made. Iv trained with dogs last week I was told these dogs would bite for real so tested them with plastic bottles tapped to my arm over hidden sleeves under a coat. first bite dog came off the bite because the plastic gave a different feeling and kind off froze 4 year old male. that had learned behaviour. Iv also tested other dogs the same way and alot will bite hard on the first go  imo they are civil and will bite anything and can take pressure at shot.

Baerenfangs Erbe

by Baerenfangs Erbe on 06 December 2017 - 18:12

whatever. Same shit different day. 
 

by Glock on 06 December 2017 - 21:12

Thank you both apple and duke for confirming quite a few observations. Time and Time again it is hammered by certian folks on this board that true social aggression in dogs is a temprament fault and weak nerve. But in other places we see experienced people are rating those kinds of dogs. And I have seen quite a few dogs that you cannot even think of touching as well as IPO dogs a stranger can walk away with. If I followed the board experts I would have thought that the latter dog was inevitably the better one. How many newbies may have accepted thst conclusion without questioning.

by Workingk9s1 on 07 December 2017 - 04:12


Baerenfangs Erbe

by Baerenfangs Erbe on 07 December 2017 - 05:12

.................................................................................................. walk away, just walk away...
 

KYLE

by KYLE on 11 December 2017 - 04:12


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