Ball Drive ! Can there be too much of a good thing ? - Page 2

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by gsdstudent on 28 July 2015 - 19:07

My working assumption is nature will allow for changes for the betterment of a gene pool. When a change is not for the greater good it will be stopped, in a Darwin like manner. My concerns is when I see enviromental problems being blamed on genetics. One man's treasure is another man's trash. Ball drive is realy prey drive. Prey can be heighten, lessened, or even extinguished.

yogidog

by yogidog on 28 July 2015 - 19:07

GSD you are right ball drive is prey drive. But prey drive need an off button. Without that is were the dangers begins environmental problems are a different problem that can be caused by where you live who is around and how you bother to socialise you're dogs .but drive that is out of control is very hard to tame for a normal family and even someone who has experience with that type of infatuation because it's not drive .you're dog is a mannis that will never comform to the tasks a gsd should medium drive clear head super nerve. Environmental that's a super dog. Iv found in most pups that show super drives have suffered with a weeker nerve. Most people won't agree but for real work dogs stability in all drives.

by gsdstudent on 28 July 2015 - 20:07

agreed yogi.the off button is obedience to handler or a bad out come [ like being run over by the car the dog is chaseing] I have seen handlers build tolerance to negative motivation and enhance drive and then blame the dog. Balance is everything and a high drive dog must have a good handler. A good handler must have the drives and nerves which they require.

yogidog

by yogidog on 28 July 2015 - 20:07

Gsd very good point handler must be balanced and have the nerve to handle and correct a dog with high drive.

beeker318

by beeker318 on 28 July 2015 - 21:07

One of the most interesting articles I've read recently related to this topic (and I unfortunately do not remember the specific site where I saw it) compared the difference between ball drive and hunt drive. The comparison originated because the author said that he was frequently asked whether his dog had high ball drive or prey drive. In his opinion, and I would agree, they are the same thing. As it relates to this topic is if the dog is balanced between prey drive and hunt drive, something that isn't necessary, but would be desired, for example, in a Schutzhund dog. the difference between the two being that prey drive is what the dog sees right now and either wants to chase, catch, capture or kill. It's an intense drive and one that is used in protection work. Hunt drive, on the other hand, is engaging the dog to want to go find something that it can't see and can't directly chase, but still wants. As this author explained it, that is a very different level of emotion, but desired, in say, search and rescue work. All-in-all, it seems like the most balanced dogs would be somewhere in the high-medium level of both- active and ready to go, but not psycho.

Bundishep

by Bundishep on 28 July 2015 - 23:07

Some good points you make and I would think your right for most working dogs that most people are wanting to use or employ them for a high-medium level dog would work very well, as far as diff between a Hunt and Prey drive mode both terms I don't think can be viewed in a tightly closed defined box, for example if dogs where hunting game they could not see in view like say in a dense forest or hills and valleys they cant see the prey but they know its out there to hunt for and then prey on it upon finding it , when I asked Cage about her female Hessy she decribed her as medium ball drive,I then asked why she didn't consider her high drive and her definition was because Hessy was only interested in a live active ball , a ball your throwing for her for example and not just a ball she see,s lying around the house or in the yard so I thought that was a pretty good way to describe her as having medium ball drive. I will have dogs related to Hessy in some of my breeding goals and I try to be careful with offspring with low drive trying to pop up,but I know there is never any fool proof breeding method but one has to try to create goals that have the best potential to realize them.


by Allan1955 on 29 July 2015 - 10:07

Ball drive or prey drive is often called play drive by people who train for other puposes than schutzhund. This drive can be found at low/high level in almost every workable breed. The majority of dogs will chase a rabbit or a cat, but not all of them will have the nerve to kill it. Imo ball drive can be build to a desent level by a competent handler. In comparison to other traits like, solid nerves, courage, fight drive witch you can't improve upon. These traits are less common and it's either a dog has them or not. I agree with Yogidog to do real work a dog must have stability in all drives.


Bundishep

by Bundishep on 29 July 2015 - 22:07

One can train and encourage ball drive but for the most part its an instinct the dog was born with. they are born with high to no ball drive and everywhere in between.

by vk4gsd on 29 July 2015 - 22:07

Do we need yet another "drive" there is only prey, sex, hunger and arguably defence drive.....I have even heard of drive for obedience load of BS.

There is no ball drive.

cage

by cage on 30 July 2015 - 09:07

vk4gsd - there´s a difference between the prey drive when the dog wants to get the prey - something that moves and the desire to pick up and carry objects that are not moving.
What would you call this "pick up and carry dead/not moving objects" drive? I am not a native speaker, I don´t know the correct term for this kind of drive. I though that somebody here on PDB once used a term for this drive but I don´t remember that term, I think it was Prager.
Bundishep, from my experience with Hessy and Hoky´s line you expect puppies will have very good drives for work - IPO, SAR, police work, good nerves, good overall health. As I said Hessy´s prey drive and food drive was very high, civil drive was very good while she was social with people. She wasn´t very friendly with dogs, she was dominant but on the other hand, she was great mother and was very tolerant also to puppies that weren´t hers.
She wasn´t interested in objects that were just lying on the ground on the yard whereas our other female Chyla would pick them up and carry them all the time. However, when we hid a ball and told her to find it, she would search for the ball and wouldn´t give up till she found it. She also had good for tracking, she tracked with deep nose. Her sons Canto and Caro have that drive for picking up and carrying dead objects. BTW, their sire Hoky is also more of a prey drive. Other Hessy´s son Erkan /sire is Eick von der Berger Hochburg/ is obsessed by carrying ball. He´s the example of too much of a good thing - his prey, ball and food drive are too high - for example, when doing obedience he is so obsessed with the ball that he is not relaxed when working - he is I want the ball, I want the ball, it´s mine,mine,mine!!! all the time. I need 2 balls during training otherwise he doesn´t want to release the ball he has in jaws. There´s also other male from Hessy in the States - Dexter La cage aux folles /Hessy and Eick von der Berger Hochburg/, that boy has high drives and is easy to work.





 


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