Choosing a pup/green dog.. - Page 2

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susie

by susie on 17 January 2017 - 19:01

Sorry, that was too theoretical -
I just wanted to say:
Go with a dog your family likes, because they are the ones spending most of the time with the dog.

I´d go with a breeder training and titling his own stock, not owning more than around 5 dogs, and I´d choose a dog I like ( = I have to be able to see and interact with the dog I am interested in ).

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 18 January 2017 - 05:01

Babbles, am I getting your question right ? In that you are looking, if we take e.g. Susie's 'lists' ^^^, more for the "how to" aspect ? Like, is there a way to tell when buying a (juvenile) dog - of course, there's no way with a pup still in the nest - if it is 'high' or 'slightly lower' "threshold", for how much it takes to trigger drive ?
Likewise, one expects that if one goes to see a new litter, on one occasion, all six or so pups will appear active, curious, friendly - but how to know if that's just because they are healthy
babies, whether one will grow up more shy than its littermates, & whether they will be more, or less, outgoing as they mature ? Or if there is more you can see & do, other than take the breeder's word for it, that the pup with the orange collar (or whatever) is always the more dominant puppy over its siblings ? You are unlikely to be able to stay there for hours, just watching how they relate to each other; and if you could, they'd probably spend most of those hours asleep !

With a green youngster, you can of course offer some tug or ball games etc and see how it reacts, but if you just go on one day, you don't know if the dog is slow to chase THAT day because s/he's having an 'off' day, or feeling a little unwell, or just not very responsive to a stranger inviting them to do stuff. (As the seller might explain). If there was a 'formula' for dog-picking, you could avoid losing out on that excellent prospect, just 'cos you didn't see the dog at its best ...
Better there, to go by what you are seeing on the day, than what 'might' be. See what I mean by being always prepared to say "No" ?

That is why the knowledge you glean from attending the clubs & shows etc over a period of time, or getting to know a breeder and their dogs properly, CAN help stack your odds (although its not a 'magic wand') - because if you consistently see a bunch of dogs where say 3 or 4 of them always perform well in training exercises, and it turns out they all share the same sire, or 2 of them have the same dam also, that can give you a guide (but not any guarantee) that this is a locally-based line worth choosing from. Or, conversely, a breeding that is a little too 'drivy' for your family requirements.


by Gustav on 18 January 2017 - 11:01

From your description of what you want in a dog, I do not think Tiekerhook would be a good match....but I could be off base.

by babbles24 on 18 January 2017 - 11:01

Thank you everyone for your responses i appreciate it!

If i were to use Susie's list:

"Family dog"
playful
not dominant
stable nerves
high threshold
low to medium preydrive

"Protection dog"
alertness
lower threshold
at least some territorial defense

"Dog I am looking for"
playful with his people
stable nerves
high threshold
low to medium prey drive
alertness
dominance in the sense of fight drive

Pretty much what i want is the best of both worlds, hence my question here.. If anyone of you guys knows any breeders that focus on the combination of attributes i am looking for..

I am in the UK and the reason i want to buy a puppy/dog from the "source" is that i want the breeder to have full knowledge of the ancestors in the dogs pedigree and what they bring to the table..

by vk4gsd on 18 January 2017 - 12:01

You do realise right that buying a dog is not the same as ordering a custom pizza with your favourite toppings.

Its good to write down stuff like a pizza order but if you really demand a specific dog then the only option is buying an adult dog.

People selling stuff will tell you otherwise.

by babbles24 on 18 January 2017 - 12:01

vk4gsd as it happens my pizza order is easier: margherita! :D

"People selling stuff will tell you otherwise." People selling stuff would tell me that the dog can make the pizza! I know, thats why i am asking for advice..

I also appreciate that its much harder to tell in a pup, and thats why i am leaning more towards a young adult.

But the question remains: any breeders that focus on the breeding i am describing??

by Bavarian Wagon on 18 January 2017 - 13:01

Why wouldn't tiekerhook be a good match? Just going off of prior "reputation" not really looking at what's coming out of the kennel currently? Take a look at his planned breedings...all of you that think he's breeding some sort of monsters might want to take a closer look at what his chosen stud dog has been producing.

Internet reputations...such a beautiful thing.

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 18 January 2017 - 13:01

In the UK you are in fact limited by some lack of a 'working/hundsports' tradition. Not that it doesn't exist at all, but (as Bav is often at pains to point out) sometimes people believe that they are breeding dogs which 'have the goods' to protect, and yet no real proof of that. We have not had to do it, the way the German kennels do, so we have not, in the main, done it.

The 'breed' (ie Show) people are moving - slowly - in the right direction, with bringing in more
Surveys and IPO and so on; especially those connected with the more recent 'Regional' set-up and the League, as compared with many individual geographically based Breed Clubs or the BAGSD. The limited number of kennels breeding specifically for 'working dogs', like those elsewhere in the world, perhaps pay too little attention to meeting the Standard in a phenotypic sense, or participating in getting their dogs Surveyed. So neither is perfect ! But a lot of breeders, on both 'sides' of that fence (and even some of the 'Alsatianists' too, perhaps surprisingly) truly believe their dogs are good examples of the breed, with all its traditional attributes intact, despite years of producing puppies which (mainly) end up in 'pet' homes, doing no work except as companions, or Show homes, where their work is to gait round a ring looking pretty and reproduce themselves.

My experience of dogs in the UK is that this is often quite accurate - as a nation we may not be producing prey monsters, but on average we are not producing all soft "Goldens-in-
disguise", either.
Bearing in mind that dogs are individuals, and you will get some variability in any litter, no matter what you are breeding for, most established kennels here continue to produce the sort of mixed-ability dog for general sale that it sounds as though you are after. It just comes down to finding one; I don't believe you have to go abroad to find it (but all that has been said by me & others ^^^ still applies). If you had mentioned the UK earlier I would have said all this already ! If you want to discuss British kennels in more depth, feel free to PM me and I can try to help you.

One thing I think you could start to do is take a look at those GSD still being used in the less high-level Obedience competitions - while the top notch contests are dominated by Border Collies, there are plenty of local and GSD Club contests throughout the year where you can see where the good dogs originate. If your need is less for a bite-schooled dog, this will still give you the sort of info you seek, without going into IPO or PD Trials where the dogs have more in the way of trained / exposed drive.

I like to feel that a majority of those who breed GSDs here still do it because they like and value their dogs, rather than primarily as a means of screwing money out of people.


by Bavarian Wagon on 18 January 2017 - 14:01

Being from the UK, definitely go to Germany for the right dog. If you're going to go with an older dog, be ready to spend some money. I would recommend you contact Duke on this forum, maybe he'll see this thread and contact you, but he might be a great source for you to look into. The type of dog you seek isn't hard to find, but you need someone you trust to get you the right one.

yogidog

by yogidog on 18 January 2017 - 16:01

Hundmutter im buying a pup from England at the moment paid deposit pup will be born at the end of month. Iv bought 2 dogs over the years some very nice dogs over there





 


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