Slow Maturing GSD - Page 1

Anyone have any experience with Czech males being slow to mature? I have a 20 month old male who isn't responding to training as fast as his litter mate. He doesn't show any defense at all and shows a general lack of interest. He bites the sleeve at the very end only, should I be concerned at this point. I've heard Czech males can be slow to come into their own. Any advise open to suggestions??

Dr can you post the pedigree?

Lupus z Morisvillu x Paddy Vom Haus Hall. Both parents are listed here on the database. Please give me your opinion after looking at the lines.

Can you post some info on the dog itsellf. Nice ped.Lots of well known czech dogs.

Big dark sable male, but doesn't engage very well. Socially he can be very independent, interacts with me on his terms. He is kenneled outside and will bark aggressively at strangers passing by. As a puppy he had lots of prey drive and would bark at the flirt pole, but seems to have lost interest. When biting the sleeve he looks for the part furtherest away from the helper. Maybe i'm expecting to much to soon, because his brother is excelling and i expected the same from him. They have both been exposed to the same training.

First of all - stop comparing! Look at the dog in front of you, and do what is appropriate for him. Within a litter, dogs will develop at different rates and with different percentages of prey/defence. Is your dog strictly a kennel dog? If so, that may be the reason he is not really connecting with you - it sounds like you are not strongly bonded.

As far as some Czech dogs being slower to mature than some other lines, my Czech-lines dog is 3 yrs old today but still not fully matured mentally. I did not do any man-work with him until he was 2 yrs old, then he was started in defence-channel-prey, as his defence is his slightly more dominant drive, although he has strong prey/hunt drive as well.

Find a helper or a club that has some experience with dogs like yours and train as appropriate for his development and drives. Take the time to build a STRONG foundation, as trying to take short-cuts will cause problems down the road. Most importantly, have fun with your dog and engage him in lots of activities - this will pay off huge.

Not uncommon for Czech dogs to get serious after 24 months of age and most don't reach their prime until 30-42 months .. some even later. I don't think the pedigree is the problem ( I know the Haus Hall breeding lines and they are breeding more for the " serious biting " dogs ) but that is also sometimes a load of bull as all dogs know how to bite. Maybe the training is the problem ... some dogs need a different training approach. I've seen some dogs that are so confident that they do not get concerned by the helper and just look at him. I had a large female that did not do barks when the helper challenged her ... she did not want to scare him off. That female could whip all of the girls and most of the boys so she was not afraid of anyone and she never lost her cool. Maybe you need to tie the dog out and work him on a sleeve or leg bar yourself .. show him what you want him to do. I have a Czech male who at 20 months was not biting the helper aggressively .. he would spin around and look me in the eyes and wait for me to tell him what to do. The helper and the other local clubbers were so clueless that they didn't even know what he was doing. They said take him home and don't do a thing with him until next week. I ignored their foolish advice because I knew my dog and knew he was a tough and fearless dog. I tied him out and worked him on a sleeve a couple of time the next week showing him where and how I wanted him to bite the sleeve. The next week at "the club" he was as the helper said killing it and knew what was expected and he did just that. It's just like tennis ... hitting balls thrown by a machine will not get you ready for for the US Open but it will help you get your mechanics and stroke down so that you don't need to think about the stroke. There is no reason not to work pups on a sleeve or leg bar yourself ... they won't get confused about the difference between biting with you or a stranger. When my Czech male bites with me playing the helper he is nice and enjoys the game. With a stranger he is mad as hell, snarling and slobbering and making the helper nervous .. the dog has no issues telling the difference.  Could be he needs more large hard bite pillow work before the sleeve.  I taught my previously mentioned Czech male on a large hard pillow before he transitioned to the sleeve.  I taught him to out on the pillow and he is not a dog that will give up his stuff but he learned to out on the pillow then he was willing to out on the sleeve from the get go but nobody could take it away from him.  I use a lot of Michael Ellis training techniques in which the out is the beginning of a new game and not the end so the dogs don't refuse to out once it becomes habit. 

As was said ALL dogs mature at their own rate...Some quick...Some slow...and still Some never at all for bitework...That's the great thing about German Shepherds...
I would not give up on him but you have to understand that some dogs out of the same litter just don't develop into what you want...It's the gamble you take with dogs...

~Bob~

How's his Prey Drive? Is he chasing a Flirt Pole? Are you just saying that his Defense Drive isn't kicking in?

~Bob~

Q Man,Prey drive is good, he will chase pole. Will also bark aggressively at strangers passing by.