Defense - Page 6

Pedigree Database

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by duke1965 on 29 April 2016 - 17:04

black malinois, even the strongest dogs with good defence work will be trained in prey to perform in IPO, to train and title a dog you NEED to work in prey, when training a dog for patrol, streetwork and such we need to work on defence/civil, and dogs who are to much prey oriented in IPO can be worked in defence, but ultimately allways will function in prey as we want them to bite sleeve only and we want higher points, so preywork as that results in full calm grips and more points

I think many problems today that trainers try to solve on the trainingfield, could be solved by better balanced breeding to begin with, but many people talk black wite, no agression at all versus overagressive dogs, and refuse to see that the best dogs have both, prey and defence to work with

by Haz on 29 April 2016 - 18:04

I truly believe each dog has a primary drive they are most comfortable in and the secondary and tertiary drives. Initially you should work the dog in the drive he defaults too until you get the behaviours you want. Then you begin to bring more balance by tapping the other drives.
I truly believe in this system.

This dog default is defense then play/prey/aggression.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0R2XJmY67Y

Prager

by Prager on 29 April 2016 - 18:04

My point is this.I have said earlier on this thread that the training like what I call Porch training is how dogs were trained for long time. Yes these methods were used instinctively since  Cro-magnon man  were used since wolf turned to be dog.An image And only recently we have forgotten what to have dog and live with it and train it by every day interaction is all about . Now people think that training involves going to pet smart or hire commercial trainer and that is fine but do not forget about every day life. Call it what ever you want. And even though someone may call it marker training and that is fine but again DO NOT FORGET TO USE IT IN EVERY DAY LIFE. There are no new principles in dog training. Only new ways to use them and apply them. To poo poo what I call is Porch training method and use of known fact because it involves known principles would then legitimize poo poo-ing all training and all talking about training and this forum too as a matter of fact.  All of it. Instead Porch training I could have call it "training by every day life" and it would be lost in the shuffle.        Next thing I would like to make clear is that I am not here to post for experts trainer nor  far haters  and trolls to get new material. I am here to post for a novices like the one in OP so that when they get new dog they are aware of principles and methods. Personally all I hear on forums is about formal training in some club or school. Where were PetSmarts  50 , 100 , 1000 years ago? I am pointing all this out not to forget that there is natural approach to training which builds correct and natural relationship between man and dog.

 I also am stressing out in Porch training to use it at the time as the dog displays ability to grasp what   we want from them. That leads to establishing of permanent defaults. Some smart ass hater may point out that there is nothing new about Default.  That is true. I am not claiming anything new.  I keep saying for decades like a mantra  that  what the dog learns first, he learns best , likes most and reverts when under stress. That basically describes  Default . Independently ( I believe) of me Armin Winkler said basically the same thing.   This  is an extremely important point in dog training    and is directly related to OP which asks when to start training.  

 So if some here points that there is nothing new  in what I am saying than by such rule we could stop talking here and close the forum. The fact is that some here are here not to talk about training but are here  for hateful social reason. 

However I hope for the others .  I hope that people interested in honest discussion will be able to wade through  puke of haters and will not be discouraged by trolls and flammers. 

 That is my hope.  

 Prager Hans  


by joanro on 29 April 2016 - 18:04

@ the op, this post by Gustav is very sound advice, worth repeating.

'You can comfortably wait until he is 18 months and the dog will be better for the wait. Biggest mistake most handlers and trainers make is " moving too fast"...... Let a puppy be a puppy. Good foundation work in prey and grips will pay dividends when the real stress comes.'

by joanro on 29 April 2016 - 19:04

BW, excellent posts.

by vk4gsd on 29 April 2016 - 20:04

"
puke of haters and will not be discouraged by trolls and flammers. "

Dam, personal attacks at the lowest level.

You know in the free world people have a right to challenge, disect and discuss ideas.

It's a democracy thing.


Prager; DEMOCRACY, google it.


BlackMalinois

by BlackMalinois on 29 April 2016 - 20:04

 


Duke yes that is what I,m trying to say IPO is a prey game also for strong defense dogs but answer me honest how many of this dog we see them on the podium?

Bouvier , Rottweilers breeds who have more natural defense where are they?
Not saying there are not good bouvier or rottweilers oldschool style  they stiill exicist but this type of dogs
needs mostly an other type of handler and training. Today prey is king.

Last post myself  about prey and defense have said enough about this .




 

 


Mithuna

by Mithuna on 29 April 2016 - 20:04

BM
We have a 150 lb rott in our club who is all prey. The owner wanted him to be a PPD, but trainer says he has very little natural defense and cannot do that type of work.

by Ibrahim on 29 April 2016 - 20:04

Irregardless of other points raised by every one, I like this part

When a puppy shows a good attitude NATURALLY take the chance, marl it and name it. I think that is something good to know and do with one's puppy, just like a gift from the pup to owner

by Ibrahim on 29 April 2016 - 20:04

Hahahahah, the three amigos, lol





 


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