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by Mithuna on 05 October 2016 - 13:10
Im Hispanic
by Q Man on 05 October 2016 - 14:10
Most Men will use physicality FIRST...
Most Women will use patience and know how FIRST...
I personally think that women make better handlers then men...The reason I say this is because most women have more patience then men do when training...
I have found that when training a dog that is super high drive or a dog that's fighting doing something that patience is what's needed...Dog's can only fight for so long...then they comply...So if you just WAIT...they will settle down and work with you...But most men don't think like this...they think more of I'll force this dog to do this or that...Where a woman will just wait and try to figure out another way of doing it...
~Bob~
by Bavarian Wagon on 05 October 2016 - 15:10
Bob…excellent post. I find this as well. Since a female knows they can’t just over power a dog, they tend to have patience and use other tools that remove much of the conflict from the training. What I see with women is that their dogs tend to learn behaviors where as with men the behaviors are forced and the dog is constantly testing their limits and pushing the rules. Most men also would rather have a “strong” dog that breaks secondary obedience and tries to eat the helper, women tend to understand the “sport” portion of IPO more and understand where points are lost. Men are usually the ones that are on the internet complaining that the scoring system of IPO is a farce and how their strong dogs that show no obedience should score higher than the more obedient dogs which usually bite just as hard and just as well…but like I’ve stated before…out of control = power in their mind so anything that’s in control and performs just as well can’t possibly be as powerful as the dog they have (again comes back to how if they can’t control the dog then no one can and it means the dog is a monster).
I’ve noticed that the more places I go and the more I see, the more I realize how much of the “strong/powerful dog” is just lack of training/control. Those that head out to clubs, watch training, go to competitions, will see through the internet and phone talk. 99% of people in IPO believe they have the greatest/strongest/most dominant dog ever made…and that’s why they can’t get a V score. But when you see the dog, and you see the training, it usually paints a different picture.
by GSD Admin on 05 October 2016 - 16:10
Jenni,
No admin edited any of your posts on this thread. If they would have, they would have copied it to the admin forum. I see none of those posts so I asked each admin and none of them edited any of your posts in this thread.
by Gustav on 05 October 2016 - 17:10
by Cutaway on 05 October 2016 - 17:10
I’ve yet to meet a single high level trainer who wants a handler aggressive dog. I’ve yet to meet any kind of police or military handler that would want one as well. Very very very few GSDs or Mals are truly handler aggressive and it’s usually handler/trainer created due to a lack of clarity in the training and the dog finally having had enough. A lot of times what you see is that handler aggression means the dog would rather “fight” than shut down, which is what people want to see, and so when the dog is finally in the hands of a capable handler they will teach the dog what they want and the handler aggression goes away while the power stays.
Management? I’ve never really heard anyone having problems managing a dog because high level people tend to kennel their animals and aren’t the ones taking their dogs to the farmer’s market every weekend. I do have high energy/high drive dogs which aren’t “safe” around everyone. They just don’t get taught the same kinds of manners that pets do and therefore are easier to manage by keeping out of the way of guests to my home. Not the end of the world for my dog to be kenneled while people are over.
I think you’re right about the other things and people do want harder/stronger dogs. High level training requires a lot of pressure from the handler and the dog has to be able to take it without taking it personally and shutting down. Dominant is something that comes with that as you can’t take a dog to a high level and worry that it will crumble seeing a newer/bigger/faster helper/decoy.
The people I see you idolizing and speaking with generally play down the dogs that are winning as softer and weaker because they don’t actually have the ability to train the type of dog they like (as you’ve described) to that level themselves. They make themselves feel better by saying that the dogs that are on the podium are softer, weaker, prey based, not aggressive, ect. The truth 99.9% of the time they just don’t have the ability to train a dog of that caliber, or…their lack of training ability and control makes the dog look stronger or “more dominant” than it really is and they sell that to. There are even plenty of times where the handler figures out that their dog isn’t as hard/strong and has to back off the pressure/control in order to maintain some level of power from the dog. ----Bavarian Wagon
This needed to be posted agian as there is a lot of TRUTH, EXPERIENCE and KNOWLEDGE in what was written
by Bavarian Wagon on 05 October 2016 - 17:10
We’re also probably speaking about “personal dogs.” As even the best K9 trainer can’t place a dog that only that trainer can handle…if the dog is too much for a handler on the street its useless right?
Also…I highly doubt people like Wallace Payne, T. Floyd, or their equivalents in the K9 world are taking the time to speak with someone like Mithuna. I have a picture of who exactly is speaking with him and it’s not the people that most of us would consider excellent trainers.
by Jenni78 on 05 October 2016 - 18:10
Admin, I dunno what was going on. Half of my post was missing, then double posts showed up, a mod's posts were visible, then not...maybe it was just on my end. I told Mr. Darcy about it.It's no biggie- just didn't have the same context with half missing.
by Gustav on 05 October 2016 - 21:10
I understand Mithuna has a lot to learn about this breed and is moving too fast, ( just like most trainers in their early years), but there is a wealth of knowledge on this forum from different training backgrounds, and there are more people than Mithuna who have limited knowledge outside their small world. So exclusive statements on training or who can handle said dogs I guess irk me.
I hope I make sense, not trying to demean anyone or any trainers.
by Dawulf on 05 October 2016 - 21:10
just not needed
Western Rider
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