Question about color genetics..what are these pups? - Page 2

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by beetree on 24 October 2016 - 21:10

@Swarnendu.  Ok, so what is the scientific name for the Bi Color gene, and what is the scientific name for the Black & Tan gene and where are they individually located on the DNA strand?

Most of the people who will answer a post about "Is my puppy a Bi-Color?" do not consider German Shepherd Dogs with tan points to be
Bi-Colors. They are the ones I refer to as purists.

You are not most people.

 


by Swarnendu on 24 October 2016 - 22:10

@beetree, for starter, shouldn't we just stop calling it gene?

Like most people, I ALSO do NOT consider all GSDs with Tan points to be Bi-colors.

Coming back to the stud in the picture, do YOU have no doubts that he's a Bi-color?

I have....

What about "Nice doggy !! Now, show me your belly!!"

by beetree on 24 October 2016 - 23:10

I don't know why we have to argue, because in the end we both gave the same answer to the question, as NO. This stud dog will only produce solid Blacks and some version of BLK and Tan which can include bicolors, depending on who the dam is.

That is my final answer.

Western Rider

by Western Rider on 25 October 2016 - 00:10

For me the males is not a true Bi-color.  He has tan in places other than his toes heels.

My bi's only have tan on the toes and heels with barring


Smiley

by Smiley on 25 October 2016 - 00:10

What do you think he is then? The melanistic black and tan blankets all seem to have brown faces and he does not.

Did your bi-colors start out as puppies with tan on their faces, ears, etc and lose the tan as they got older?

by beetree on 25 October 2016 - 00:10

Check this link out where it talks about melanistic face mask and solid color dogs, including the GSD.

https://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/services/dog/mc1r.php

And this, too: 

http://www.vetgen.com/canine-coat-color.html


Western Rider

by Western Rider on 25 October 2016 - 02:10

My Bi's were almost black only color was on the toes none on the face or belly


by Drmeinerz on 25 October 2016 - 03:10

Smiley,
Your dog is a bicolor. Puppies are bicolor or black. But they can be bicolor without mask. That´s why they have tan points on their face. An example of bicolor without mask is Bolle JaNaKa. Homozigote Bicolor.

darylehret

by darylehret on 25 October 2016 - 03:10

What luck, I post here maybe once every other year. This is my take, based on less "popular" sources of information. Once the masses start repeating an ill-conceived notion often enough, there's no arguing against it.

Bi-color is NOT a separate "gene", it's an ALLELE (a variant of an allele, similar to alleles that express Saddle patterned black & tan or Blanket backed black and tan). There can be many Variants (sable, self-color/black, and every black and tan pattern in between).

The GENE in question is called the Agouti Gene. A gene is composed of Locus and Alleles, the "where" and the "what". Many genes can involve more than one locus (or loci). The Agouti locus is ONE locus. Each locus will have TWO alleles (each inherited from one parent). Irregardless of how many variants you want to consider exist for the agouti locus, EVERY variant is a mutation of the original "wild type" allele, which we in the German Shepherd breed term as "sable", with it's terminal band of black on the individual hairs. Solid Black is a mutated variant that fails to express any of the original sable because of altered encoding instructions of the mutated Sable allele. Unless a very rare reverse mutation occurs activating dormant instructions within the allele, the offspring will inherit copies of the mutated or degraded variants of the original wild type.

As a general rule of thumb, the pattern expressing the most black will be the least dominant. There are LOTS of instructions in one single allele, enough for me to believe it's ridiculous to claim that all black and tan alleles are identical.

Smiley

by Smiley on 25 October 2016 - 13:10

Daryle- thank you! Although.....I can't say I understood anything your wrote!! I don't have a science brain...I wish I did!!

If you were going to dumb that down for me, would you say:

that bi-color and black and tan are actually the same thing. That even black and tans are really bi-colors? And the only two colors that exist in the breed are blacks and bi-colors and all other colors come from genes being mutated? Is that close? Sorry






 


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