German Shepherd Dog > Is Tom van't Leefdaalhof the next Troll/Timmy in sport world? (173 replies)
Is Tom van't Leefdaalhof the next Troll/Timmy in sport world?
by Gustav on 06 July 2012 - 01:14
|I see Tom in quite a few sport pedigrees of West dogs and Czech dogs so I ask the question above.|
by Nadeem6 on 06 July 2012 - 02:32
|In my neck of the woods, Falk von den Wolfen and Bomber vom Wolfsheim are the ones people seem to want to see in a pedigree.|
by macrowe1 on 06 July 2012 - 02:35
|I think they're all great working dogs.|
by darylehret on 06 July 2012 - 03:21
|I could see it, particularly through sons Ellute and Vito, and remind that Bomber's a son of Vito.|
by Gustav on 06 July 2012 - 10:14
|That's what I mean, Daryle.|
by Koach on 06 July 2012 - 12:04
|One lesser known Vito son that I like is Bosco von der Hagenmühle.|
by Working GSDs on 06 July 2012 - 12:15
|Ellute is definatly important in future breedings not only because on Tom but also because of his dam Aline von der Mohnweise who has Yoschy. I think the combination of Tom and Yoschy bring the extra drive and seriousnes.|
Seeing this combination always gets my attention!
by EisenFaust on 06 July 2012 - 12:52
|What lines do you guys think go well with the Ellute lines for breeding. Also what kinds of things do you all notice in the offspring of Ellute, Tom lines? We use the Ellute lines often and looking for others point of view.|
by ziegenfarm on 06 July 2012 - 15:02
|agree with koach on the B-hagenmuhle litter. i have been interested in those dogs since they were puppies.|
***i have 2 tom granddaughters & see him as something you "bring" in to your breedings, but certainly not
the "core" of your kennel. JMHO.
by Gustav on 06 July 2012 - 16:09
|I agree ziegenfarm, I have an Ellute grandson, that I like a very lot, but his sire is Sid vh Pixner, and the reason I got the dog. I feel Sid gave the extra dimension of being either sport or police dog...this has turned out to be case. Still, it seems like Tom, or his progeny are dominating the sport world.|
by darylehret on 06 July 2012 - 17:43
Funny, I was too, and desperately wanted a female of that litter at the time.
Gustav, I think Sid is already very influential himself, and will become moreso in following years.
by ziegenfarm on 06 July 2012 - 19:05
i don't see tom becoming a cornerstone in the breed the way fero or fado have been. tom carries too much baggage to suit me and that is the reason for my comment about something to bring in rather than being the core. once again JMHO. ;)
by Gustav on 06 July 2012 - 20:16
|Yeah, pjp, but whether he carries the baggage or not, it will depend on whether breeders keep going to him and his progeny. I personally think that Mink and Fero carried a lot of baggage, but thet also provided some traits that were desired by breeders and they took off in being used. I personally feel the same way toward Tom as I did Fero. Don't have a problem with Tom, but wouldn't build around him.|
by Mari111 on 06 July 2012 - 21:13
|Please explain what baggage Tom has that would prove to negatively impact the GSD. Also, if he were utilized, how would one balance out those undesirable traits?|
When I look at Tom I don't see Tom but, a progeny of the Orry line. Orry is a cornerstone of the GSD and has added many desired traits to many breeder's lines.
by ziegenfarm on 07 July 2012 - 06:25
|tom acquired some of his baggage from orry....as did troll milinda. all 3 were fine dogs, but a person still needs to be realistic and honest. i am usually not eager to pinpoint specifics because no matter what you say, even if it included a large percentage, somebody always has to bring up that one exception in an attempt to refute everything you've said. even when you admit that the exceptions exist, they still have to bring them up. just like to argue, i guess. (i have a troll grandson as well)|
the sport folks are looking for an entirely different sort of dog than i am. if that's what they want & what they are happy with, then fine. i just wish they would allow me the same consideration in what i am happy with. we don't all have to have the same sort of dog.
by Gustav on 07 July 2012 - 11:49
|@ ziegenfarm , I feel the same way about the Orry line. Of which Tom is a cornerstone. That's why I prefaced my initial post as saying I see them in a lot of sport dogs. Not a knock on sport dogs, and I love Troll v h Malinda, Orry v h Anterpva, and Tom vant Leefdaalhof what what they bought to the table, but too much of them concentrated is just too sporty for my tastes .|
by guddu on 07 July 2012 - 12:04
|Why speak in code...I thought the point was to discuss and to learn.|
by vomeisenhaus on 07 July 2012 - 12:25
|I bred to troll milinda my a-litter. The pups were all over the place. Out of a litter of 9 I had 3 that I liked a lot and 2 of those were longhair. In fact my favorite 2. Mother was a chico fasanerie daughter.|
by Gustav on 07 July 2012 - 13:41
|I have liked a lot of what I have seen out of Chico, and frankly wanted something with him for years. @ guddu......I think what Zeigenfarm and I are discussing is pretty well understood by sport people. Ithere are many different levels of understanding on this forum, it is difficult to write a post on specific dogs and pedigrees that everyone will understand. I guess every conversation is not for everyone, no code being used, sometimes discussions are on subject matter that you have to be involved for it to make sense. If you are, then it isn't code at all.|
by cphudson on 07 July 2012 - 15:28
|In my area a lot of the police dogs have Tom in their pedigree. Many of the top sport dogs also have Tom In their pedigree. It seems who you mix with Tom lines depends on how they become more sporty or civil.|