African Boerboel > Dopper.......Nebo (4 replies)
by MarcoB on 06 June 2010 - 17:00
|Firstly, i have put this message on other forums so, sorry if you have already seen it.|
I won’t name people in this message but if you know the Boerboel for sometimes,,,you will know the person I am talking about…
The purpose of this message is to inform people of the breeding philosophy of the breeder we got “Dopper Nebo” and to finally offering Nebo to people who could be interested in him.
After several years(since 2001) with the Boerboels as passionate and breeder in family environment, the story I have to share disappointed us at the maximum….to the point to maybe stop breeding(even if we only had few litters in the past)…. I can understand that some puppies can turn not like we would like but when we take lots of time discussing with the reputable breeder asking the right questions and being ready to pay such a high price for a dog,,,,that would be appreciated if we could received the dog we were convinced to receive without limp and other issues,,,,The breeder own that dog for several years, that dog was stud #1 for some years, so no surprises for the breeder and easy for him to tell us the truth about that dog,,,,but it seems some are quality talker instead of providing the right answers to our questions and putting the overseas customers in bad position….
The story began a bit more than two years ago, we wanted to have a third and last litter with our female “Gison Kirra” so, I decided to screen the internet and finding an excellent male a special one for Kirra, the process for this took approximately 6 months. There were four other males which interested us but as usual,,,very picky so the four did not met what we look for.
Finally, discussing with another breeder, he proposed us a nice brindle male,,,,”Dopper Simson”,,,,,the price was kind high for a dog in that condition, after some discussions, I understood that the dog has hips graded 3/3, so I mentioned the breeder that here, it is not well to breed with that kind of dog and were not interested in Simson,,,,the breeder explained me that dog combined with a great female could produce outstanding puppies,,,,,maybe that is true but we did not want to take the chance.
So, at some occasion, I ask if “Dopper Nebo” could be for sale.
We have had a dog with similar blood line and like it very much, his looking was ok too and again, after several discussions, we concluded his temperament was exactly what we look for…..I told the breeder we were ready to pay for an excellent dog but preferred to wait if the dog did not met the criterions we look for,,,,,and the breeder confirmed me the dog was healthy, without problems, with the temperament we look for etc..etc…
The breeder took some days and came back us with a positive answer but the price was such high,,,,too high for us, we were sad because Nebo, with the informations we got was the one we wanted but cannot paid that high price…..Luckily, several days later, the breeder contacted us again informing us that he cut the price almost by half but with the shipping,,,,still expansive….. $7500 (dog, shipping, taxes, money exchange, etc…),,, Nebo was 5 ¼ years old ,,,we finally accepted and sent the payment.
Bad news, his vaccines were not up to date(strange), so we had to wait 6 weeks to get our dog,,,,do you believe us when we say those days and weeks were long especially when you are not sure what will happen with your money.
That breeder spent 6 more weeks with Nebo, that is enough time to notice if there are major issues with the dog and mentioned them to us,,,,,but we here nothing about that
Nebo finally arrived end of October 2008,,,,,,he was so dirty and we noticed immediately ugly skin patch(and bump) and a limp to right front leg.
by MarcoB on 06 June 2010 - 17:22
|I mentioned those informations to the breeder,,,,|
I have to say I had good things too to say about Nebo and I confirmed the breeder that Nebo possessed the temperament we look for.
About the skin, the answer from the breeder was that Nebo like to lay on cold concrete and/or lack of sun???
About the limps, he wondered if he didn’t injured himself on the flight and I had to give him anti inflammatory and the issue should disappear soon,,,(but several months later he confirmed he was aware of the limp…) ???
During that process, so two weeks after Nebo arrived,,,,our female Kirra came in heat, she was 6 years old, so we did not want to wait her to be older and mated her with Nebo because we had trust in the breeder, he knew Nebo for long time and he confirmed us everything would be ok…..That breeder is one of the first ones in SA, he is supposed to be a reputable one, so we cross our fingers our $7500 male would produce nice pups and hope the explanations he provided us about Nebo would be right too.
Later, we realized that the limp has not disappeared, the puppies were not born yet too, did we do a mistake, not sure yet.
Finally, the puppies arrived, we decided we wanted to keep the only brindle female…everything was ok till the female was 6 months old, we noticed at that time a slight limp to the same side as Nebo, at least that pup is the one we kept and the littermates were ok . We have brought both dogs to the vet and confirmed us both has elbow dysplasia to the right elbow, so a genetic issue…..
yes, our sadness and disappointment started from that time, all that money for a bad condition dog,,,,,even worst,,,,the breeder already knew about Nebo.
I tried at several occasions to send those information to the breeder but the email came back to me at several occasions,,,,finally that work….
After some discussions, the breeder finally confirmed me he was aware of the problems(skin and limp) but his vet thought that the problem should disappear…..
If the limp is still there, it was there long time ago, I now have proof of that….
ARE THOSE INFORMATIONS IMPORTANT BEFORE SHIPPING THE DOG FOR SMALL BREEDER LIKE US WHO PAID SUCH A HIGH PRICE???
I spent time(emails) and time(phone call) and money(phone card) and again money(x-ray and vet report),,,,we came to a conclusion we had the right to ask for a refund, some will say that we had a litter with Nebo,,,,,but does a breeder pay $7500 for a stud which will be use only one time plus all the other problems that caused us,,,,,it is why we only ask a refund for less than half what we paid for the dog…but still too much for the breeder seller…
The fact that the breeder already knew about Nebo issues should be easy to solve the situation but no, it has not been that easy,,,,,He wanted us to send him x-ray and vet report etc..etc…..i ask him at that moment that we were exhausted of the situation and before spending more time and money to prove him what he already knew, I wanted him to confirm me he would refund us and we were ready to do whatever he wanted us to do with Nebo,,,, the only thing he mentioned was that he wanted to solve the situation as quickly as us.
That was not exactly the answer I wanted but enough to continue,,,,I had already spent so many times,,,,,so why not spending a bit more time and money,,,, that has been my best hobby in the last months.
I sent him the x-ray and vet report, he ask his vet Prof Kirkberger in SA to confirm my vet report, I received a copy of Prof Kirkberger,,,,the conclusion, both vet agree that Nebo and his daughter should not be breed in the future….
Is that enough to have a refund???
Finally, the only proposition he did to us even if earlier h
by MarcoB on 06 June 2010 - 17:24
|Finally, the only proposition he did to us even if earlier he confirmed us he wanted to solve the situation quickly was to try selling Nebo to another person.|
If he had so many persons interested in him,,,,he had several weeks and months to name some!!!
I said to him,: “How much worth Nebo in SA?”
I said too that nobody will pay for that dog and his proposition was again to ask us to wait, wait and wait and we were not ready to wait all that time.
He came back to me so often with his ‘breeding philosophy” which is that Nebo is still a great dog and combining with the right female can produce good puppies like with “Dopper Simson” the dogs with hips 3/3,,,,keeping all the pups for long time, evaluate them and taking the right decision about each of them….For the price we paid, we wanted an healthy dog with no visible problems which could cause issue with the future litter….is that easy to understand!!! but not for him…
He talk about the small genes pool and the fact that there are lots of Boerboel Champion in SA which has obvious genetics issue…..&?#$?*&
I mentioned him that Nebo’s condition was not what we look for, we were ready to pay a high price for an healthy dog and being proud to show him and being proud of the puppies he produces,,,,
I explained him that here, it is already expansive to breed with quality dogs.
I told him too, that he sells the puppies a lot more expansive to us in America then in SA so with all that money, it is easy for him to do experiences with his bad condition dogs and it is his business but surely not my way of breeding and the breeding ethic several breeders practice here.
He told me that he sells us(American) puppies at a more expansive price than in SA because he had no demand for his puppies when the price was cheaper… %&#$%!
I ask him so often why he did not mentioned me everything about Nebo…..probably because money is his priority and easy to take advantage from an overseas customer like us….
I even mentioned him the conclusion of his vet Prof Kirkberger and he said we cannot always listen the vet for taking our breeding decisions…
Why did that breeder ask me for X-ray?
He wrote me at some occasion that we did money with that litter and it was not fair for him to refund us,,,,bla bla bla
How we see the situation:
It is like the breeder pass us the dog,,,,we notice there are problems with the dog, the breeder confirm everything will be ok, we mate our female with the male and raise the pups and finally give the money to that breeder and all our time is free plus all the other problems it cause to breed with a bad dog and the money invested…the most important thing is that for us we cannot breed anymore with that dog…..
We did not ask the breeder to refund for the shipping and we even propose to let him some hundred dollars for his dog, in SA, it is still lots of money,,,I think it was a fair proposition from us.
If we really wanted to hide the situation and doing money with that high price dog, we could have breed him at several occasions to recover our money investment but it is not what we did and it is not what we are…..the thing we are sure, that left a big scar in our mind,,,,all that money and energy for such a negative experience…..
That could have been so easy and different if we would have gotten the right info about Nebo…
Like I mentioned earlier, one of the purpose of this message is to offer Nebo to someone who could be interested in him as a pet or to a person who share the breeding philosophy of the breeder who sold us Nebo,,,, I encourage you to contact that breeder to confirm you his way of
by MarcoB on 06 June 2010 - 17:26
|Like I mentioned earlier, one of the purpose of this message is to offer Nebo to someone who could be interested in him as a pet or to a person who share the breeding philosophy of the breeder who sold us Nebo,,,, I encourage you to contact that breeder to confirm you his way of breeding the Boerboels….. at least, you now know Nebo’s issues that help taking the right decision but don’t worry, we know he does not worth the price we pay. Nebo possesses a solid temperament and imposing personality, he does not need lots of exercises,,,,you know why and he is a good protector.|
We kept for long time those informations between the breeder and us, we had faith to come to an agreement but this never happened. Nebo’s breeder mention us long time ago that we already had bad mouth his kennel, something we never did,,,just another excuse to not solve the situation but today, we did not have created a fantastic story but we just told the truth to the Boerboel community.
Are we happy to have kept those informations privately for so long,,,,,the answer is no and we sincerely apologize…
We offer Nebo because that is ennough for us now and we want to turn the page for a while…
If interested, you are welcome to contact us for more info about him.
If you have advices for us, you are welcome too.
by Leonine on 04 August 2010 - 17:32
sorry to hear about this. No wonder Dopper Boerboels are not the one time legends they used to be. The dogs that they have been producing lately are nothing to boast about.
Also, $7500 is a lot of money for a 5+ year old male. It is a lot of money for champion Boerboel. I hope you had checked around with other fellow Boerboel people to get an idea.
At any rate, many a breeders in South Africa are deceitful like this. I lost $2500 to a "reputable breeder" going out of business for a dog that I never got, it has been 5years.