German shepherd breeders specially ddr pls answer - Page 13

ValK: Afraid I agree with Rik on that one; it's also largely true of the UK perspective - we have some breeders (on both the 'lines', SL & WL ) - who truly have the interests of the breed first and foremost, but the best you can say of others is that in among their scramble to win the prizes and make the money, a fairly decent proportion of them ALSO do at least a minimum towards ensuring buyers are honestly told what they are getting, and that the health tests etc are properly pursued and breeding decisions reflect those results to at least some extent. (SOME of them even work their dogs - and I'm talking about both Show AND 'Working' kennels ...)

I think this is possibly the most we can ever hope for, realistically. It has certainly always been true, so many breeding decisions today are really no different from most breeding decisions of yesteryear.

On bloodlines, other dogs from Germany were and have been imported here that have had various influences on our UK GSD 'scene' over the years, both in producing what became the 'Show' lines and in producing bloodlines for Working dogs of various kinds, totally wthout reference to what has developed in the States. Results depend on 'what you mix in with which' early imports.

a few pages back, duke said that he don't see any resemblance of dogs in book of DDR sigers/etc. with dogs who today being promoted on market as direct descendants of those original DDR lines.
there are left only few old former DDR breeders who still active and very picky in their breeding programs. they do produce the dogs, who is up to standard, set back then in DDR.
majority of self-proclaimed "DDR breeders" around the world indeed base their breeding by utilizing dogs from those breeders and any other remnants with DDR roots, leftover in different countries. but they do not understand or intentionally ignores the fact that dogs in DDR wasn't paperwork but rather a certain type with emphasis on certain traits. that the dogs, produced by them, would never pass DDR korung and be allowed into breeding and thus offspring of those dogs never will be entered into DDR registration data. in another words - they just disappear from stock of GSDs.
it's not cease to amaze me, how foolish the person should be to pay extra for the dogs who is quite mediocre in all respects but has paper proof of DDR background, which seems sometimes even could be faked up.

Valk, you cannot compare things you have no first hand knowledge of, which is why these people who buy the so called DDR dogs do so and seeing as they have never seen a real one, they assume that is what they have.

Valk

After wading through the mindless prattle I see a gem from the voice of true experience.

 

a few pages back, duke said that he don't see any resemblance of dogs in book of DDR sigers/etc. with dogs who today being promoted on market as direct descendants of those original DDR lines.
there are left only few old former DDR breeders who still active and very picky in their breeding programs. they do produce the dogs, who is up to standard, set back then in DDR.
majority of self-proclaimed "DDR breeders" around the world indeed base their breeding by utilizing dogs from those breeders and any other remnants with DDR roots, leftover in different countries. but they do not understand or intentionally ignores the fact that dogs in DDR wasn't paperwork but rather a certain type with emphasis on certain traits. that the dogs, produced by them, would never pass DDR korung and be allowed into breeding and thus offspring of those dogs never will be entered into DDR registration data. in another words - they just disappear from stock of GSDs.
it's not cease to amaze me, how foolish the person should be to pay extra for the dogs who is quite mediocre in all respects but has paper proof of DDR background, which seems sometimes even could be faked up.

2 Questions

 

1)  Who are those "Old former DDR Breeders" that  are still breeding??

 

2)  What can be done with the dogs with paper proof of DDR background to breed our way back to those traits you talk about?   Please be specific as many  of us did not grow up with these standards

 

Valk

I heard Boban was so super aggressive that such temperament was written of as a fault. Another more recent DDR import Henk JH has also been described as "beyond civil'.

My understanding has always been roughly the same as you lay out, ValK. What actually bothers me (and readers must decide for themselves whether this is "mindless prattle" or not) is WHY anybody would want to seek out people and purchase dogs from these "very few old breeders" (or anyone else following in their footsteps) if they have no guarantee that what they are producing are dogs which are true to that bit of their ancestry that included, mostly a long while back, some dog(s) of DDR creation ?

Along with a lot of members here, I am not convinced that, in any aspect of the breed, you can breed 'back in' traits that have already been lost.  You just get lucky on occasions with some individual dogs, from some litters and some parentage.  I.E. like other temperaments and abilities (and physical features) turn up more pronounced in some dogs than in others (the shake of the genetic dice).

To be guided in 're-creating' GSDs that you can claim to be DDR Type (no matter how horribly constructed, straight shoulders and all), perhaps just on the LOOK of them being similar to dogs used on the Border 40 years ago, would seem to me to be perpetuating a fraud on the public.

 

Another thought to perhaps consider:  do we really want to create dogs whose temperament & drives render them "beyond civil", "super aggressive"  IF that results in dogs that cannot be helped, should they fall on hard times & be found e.g. starving or drowning, by strangers ?  There is, to my mind, no doubt that for SOME dogs, being able to produce the sort of working performance that could get them described in those terms will also be dogs with no 'softer' side; hardly amendable to being handled by strangers if their owner/handlers cannot rescue them.  Is this 'natural' for the GSD breed, (and ergo should we all follow suit, as often seems to be urged, and breed nothing but such dogs) or is it all about the ego of the people who wish to own & work them ?

IMO todays desire of DDR dogs/lines is limited to looks and braggingrights, doubt that anyone is looking for a true civil crowd control or patrol type of dog

KAVALLERIE, is still breeding pure DDR lines,EICKENTAL is breeding DDr dogs, with a good bit of info too. Grafental is breeding DDR dogs,, there are actually several that are still breeding the dogs off the same DDR lines from the past, and in my opinion, that makes them full DDR. I also have a couple dogs in my pack with full DDR bloodlines.
I am now and have alwaYS BEEN A BIG FAN OF THE ddr DOGS/

kitkat3478 

 

KAVALLERIE, is still breeding pure DDR lines,EICKENTAL is breeding DDr dogs, with a good bit of info too. Grafental is breeding DDR dogs,, there are actually several that are still breeding the dogs off the same DDR lines from the past, and in my opinion, that makes them full DDR. I also have a couple dogs in my pack with full DDR bloodlines.
I am now and have alwaYS BEEN A BIG FAN OF THE ddr DOGS/

 

Thankyou for providing useful information!. 

 

 

 

 

Komeilkiani 

 

Guys i have question, is the pure DDR, has new showline type. DDR is working dog but a breeders told me there is new type of ddr, it looks like a showline german shepherd but much bigger. Is that true? Should i classified DDR with workline or with showline?.if its not correct , Pls give me the name of your kennel because i need sth to prove. Thanks for you attentions.

 

Here is your answer...

 

DDR Type (no matter how horribly constructed, straight shoulders and all),

Thank  the Good Lord they have the structure of a working dog and are not bred to be a morphidyte with the butts dragging the ground.... the abomination of German Shepherds they call "Showlines" 

Perhaps someone should start a thread called "I hate DDR's" since there seems to be a lot of DDR bashing going on.