Inappropriate Agression , but is this a fear biter? - Page 14

I seen a dog with tons of indurance, fight drive, not willing to quit.
The trainer/decoy did trigger the dog to bite with hand gestures, and I think that his purpose was to keep the dog pizzed off so that the session could continue for what I assume was hours...to wear the dog down.
No, Centurion, the dog is not happy even at the end while doing obedience... He wants to be with his handler, he is probably 'a one man dog'...nothing wrong with that in my mind.

the one men dogs will work hapily for you as soon as you are theire "one men" and that doesnot take that long, if you start bonding with, them,

if you want to overpower real strong dogs it may take longer or forever, but the dog will still not look that submissive.

its amusing to see that everybody assumes that a dog pushing for bite in a muzzle, must be a strong dog, but fail to simply read the dogs bodylanguage.

 

secondary, I am a firm believer of handler working WITH the dog and not against the dog, so overpowering or dominating is not needit in most cases, and teaming up with strong,confident one man dogs dont take that long and dont show that result.

Jo I take into what you say into consideration ... as a matter of fact I stated I had thought intuitively that this dog had some training.. so I am on board with your thoughts in regards to that. Although I wrote , I don;t think context / situation is applicable or an off shoot of any kind of raining .. But , my in my thinking and my experiences : I have never ever ever come across anyone themselves experienced and of right mind , to train and teach a dog to bite / to combatively unrelentingly engage a non threatening man when the dog itself is not threatened /defensed / fleeing as a fugitive or the owner himself is not threatened. And in this video I see none of the former.
But to reiterate.. it is not just what the dog is doing , and not just why or how , but the state the dog is in whole all of that transpires. As you realize , a bite is not a bite. What makes one bite different from another bite is the thoughts , feelings , emotions and motivation within the dog in a specific** context ** that expresses the soundness of the aggression. Who ever does muzzle work on a passive non threatening street clothed civilian that not is not in the role of apprehending a criminal. ? Even police officer would not set his K9 on such a person in this video role. For the inference would then be , the dog was normal and correct in what it was doing and the men are a little off their rocker.

This wasn't a dog specifically 'bred for' any sort of determination / aggression / hard 'working' drives.
[I believe those genetics are still there; but they had not been channelled for with this dog.] It really wasn't an issue if he was 'genetically' predisposed, or not; what was at issue was: has this dog been let down by human inadequacy ? and Can this dog be rehabilitated / given a useful life (or should he be p.t.s) ?

Hundmutter, i'm not really in position much to say about that case. i don't know what motivation was behind. 
maybe, as duke said, "machism", maybe something else.
that that dog didn't come from special breeding program doesn't prove much. odds are low but from time to time 
even average, "non educated" breeding can produce unexpected result with unusual specimen. i guess that what 
did happen in your example.
sure, mistakes can be made even by someone with experience but in any case, no one can answer your question 
without seeing the dog itself and do assessment if that is pure genetics in play or an imprinted behavior in reliance 
to genetic predisposition.

I have never ever ever come across anyone themselves experienced and of right mind , to train and teach a dog to bite / to combatively unrelentingly engage a non threatening man when the dog itself is not threatened /defensed / fleeing as a fugitive or the owner himself is not threatened.

i'm the one in such "perverted mind" to teach the dog to attack non threatening person 
actually perhaps all of us back then was such, as that exercise was part of patrol dogs training program.

the good policedogtrainers in USA I work with DO train dogs to engage a non treathning man, as often a suspects tries to run and hide and is not trying to attack the dog or the policeman, but avoiding confrontation and hide

https://youtu.be/6qBv-lVEZVw

Duke, read my earlier post, I said I would have taken the same approach as the trainer does..
But if this was just someone's pet dog that acted aggressively and had no training I would probably teach him a little bit of respect if he's not trained for bitework.

I want my dog to bite supposedly neutral person...an invader intending to do harm is not going to broadcast his intentions to a dog.....

Morning all,

Its nice being on the west coast and to have a first cup of coffee while reading all the great posts and insights today. Everyone...Cent, duke, Joanro, HM, Valk are all spot on in their observations.

Just a note about ears being pinned back on the beginning of the vid...In my experience a dog will pin ears back while biting. Autonomic nervous system takes over - to protect this protruding target from other mouths.

There was a point in the biting where the dog stopped, took a step to handler and looked at him like „ok, done that, what else should I do boss?“ and looked quite relaxed, considering he just tried to take a man apart...and then he turned and went for the trainer again. Why? Also, the barking in session 2 seems commanded too...as if dog is already tired of this, its not working for him... and wants to move on. But just speculation.

When in session 2 and 3, ears seemed ok, only an very slight inch back when trainer came up to him and then normal again. Dog seemed relatively composed for a mal, imo. Intense panting might be from hot weather, or, yes, nerves.

But yes Cent, the big question is why did he go for the trainer in the first place. The vid begins with him already up on the arm growling. Cent may be right in his diagosis and it is a logical one. Wish we knew more and what happened to this dog.

Back to my million dollar questions.

The questions are the million dollar ones because they are the tricky questions with all the moving parts.... that will determine the outcome of a rehab.

And the answers will be different from case to case and from handler to handler:

I also wanted to add Cents million dollar question to the list, but can find it anymore and can‘t remember it.

1. Having knowledge to know which dogs can be rehabbed and which can‘t.
2. Can the owners/handlers deal with the perhaps life long vigilance of such a dog?
3. Does the trainer (in the 1st vid specifically) know when a dog can not be rehabbed due to weak genetics....and does he take responibility and actually say if it can‘t be done, in his opinion?