black showlines GSD - Page 1

If black is recessive, and black is generally only in the working lines, how are we seeing black showlines from Russia?

Who says "Black is generally only in working lines" ? Maybe true in America; certainly not true in the UK. Loads of all-black pet dogs, considerable number of black dogs in OB not necessarily 'working' bred, and not all that unusual in Show competition either.

Maybe the Russian breeders are using similar breeding programmes to the Brits.

American showlines have solid blacks.

Indeed they do! This dog is from a kennel that's close to me:

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2459894-madebs-pretty-little-liar

It's obvious no one understands the question. Check out the pedigree and see if you can find how the black got there. It's a bit suspect.

No doubt they have and seem to be able to produce structure.

It's all new and remains to be seen if it's a fad or something that will be developed.

Is that any particular pedigree you have in mind, for us to 'check out', akctrainer, or will anything do ? LOL.

 

PS There is nothing new under the Sun.  There have been Black dogs since the 1890s, nothing 'suspect' about it. The pedigree of Sunny's neighbours' dog has a Black on both sides, inside 4 generations.  So much for recessives being carried in American & Canadian S/L.  We know there are Black dogs in Germany (even if not in great numbers). We know there are Black dogs in the rest of Europe. UK included.  Since most Russian pedigrees, at least the S/L ones, are [ like other European S/L pedigrees ] based in recent German S/L pedigrees, there will inevitably be Black dogs coming through there, also. This will increase numerically if enough people prefer the colour pattern to breed 'for' it.

The Opie is talking about a specific dog. This is the dog from Russia whose Offspring Have appeared in German confirmation shows. The descendants of this dog have done fairly well from a confirmation point so it's a very specific narrow line of dogs from one dog in Russia. So it's not a general question it's a very specific a question about one dog it when you look at the dog it's an anomaly

So name the dog, or better yet link its pedigree. And explain the anomaly. The OP talks about Showlines plural. Maybe a minority of regulars here will have a detailed knowledge of all dogs currently being shown in Germany, so how many people get the reference ? It would level the playing field if those who do know would actually say which dog the OP is on about,(given that the OP should have & didn't) instead of talking about everybody else not understanding the question - like some member of some secret society proving how clever they are 'cos they understand the hidden world !

OP, black is typically recessive in GSDs (kyky aa), but the black in dogs from the Russian show line is dominant (KB) and inherited as such. I've also seen GSDs with non-Russian backgrounds who test as dominant black recently, so it may be more common than we think.

Indeed, foreversolucky, that is an impression I am increasingly getting these days, from here and elsewhere. Either way, whether Russian dogs or any others are producing Blacks - it is in the breed. By whichever route/ genes combo. We have until comparitively recently not been able to determine how the genetics works. Therefore there should be no surprise when it crops up.

Genetic principles are just that; there are no hard rules ! There are only probabilities. Puppies do not come out, e.g., in every litter containing Sables, based on the statistics for Sables.  Some folk seem to expect them to, however ! Genes mix and match in individual dogs, they are turned On or Off in individual dogs.  They get inherited while 'skipping' generations. Geneticists are still working on what does that. Too many people assume that a 'rule of thumb' is somehow immutable Holy Writ. And that is when nasty rumours about dark secrets and suspicious breeding start; fine, have suspicions about whether a certain sire is really a puppy's father, or whatever - but don't deny that a colour factor that is there & has always been there must be suspect - or at least be prepared to back it up with evidence of shenanigens !