Ads: GSD for breeding OR for showing OR for training ... What´s wrong??? - Page 1

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susie

by susie on 26 July 2017 - 19:07

When I take a look at the ads I often wonder about the headline -
it´s either

"for training/titling"
"for showing"
or
"for breeding"

At first glance no major problem, but as soon as you think about the breed standard ( I am talking about the GSD ) you may begin to wonder...

"For training" - okay, seems to be a dog able to work, but not good enough for the show ring ?; that said, not good enough for breeding? No titled ( at least trained ) ancestors, the dog itself not trained/titled, so how does the seller know this dog is suitable for "training" ???
"For showing" - okay, must be a nice looking dog, but what about working ability? Nothing? Not important? The parents not even trained / titled? No chance in any major SV show, sorry, just a nice pet - and without working title no participation in the working dog class...
"For breeding" - What does this mean? Able to produce puppies??? What about conformation and working ability? Not important???

The GSD breed is special, because it´s

not only about working ability
not only about conformation
not only about fertility

It´s about all of it ( we didn´t even talk about health yet )...

- In case you ONLY want to train / work your dog, conformation and fertility don´t matter
- In case you ONLY want to show your dog working titles don´t matter as long as you quit before the age of 2, and you don´t want to participate in major SV events

In case you ONLY want to breed you should think about the original standard of the GSD ( working ability, conformation, health ) - the 3 pillars of the breed.

Believe it or not -

working ability ( temperament, drives ) is genetis
conformation is genetic
health is genetic

That said whenever you are in the market for a "breeding prospect" ( yes, even ONE litter makes you a breeder, responsible for the breed ) you should care about ALL pillars, not only one or two...

A good working GSD not looking like the GSD standard describes is NO breeding prospect
A good looking GSD not able to work is NO breeding prospect
A not healthy GSD ( hips, elbows, allergies, bloat, and so on ) is NO breeding prospect

We could go on -

A healthy, fertile, good looking GSD is not breed worthy as long as it´s not able to work
A healthy, fertile, good working GSD is not breed worthy in case it doesn´t fit the conformation standard.
A good looking, good working GSD is not breed worthy, in case it´s not healthy...

Understandable?

It´s about the whole package - 3 pillars- working ability, health, conformation, all of them important -
the RESULT = breed worthiness

This has nothing to do with working lines/show lines - it simply has to do with respect to the original standard of the breed.


Fantom76 (admin)

by Fantom76 on 26 July 2017 - 23:07

Susie, I see your point, but you not not thinking logically. Members are not highly paid exec's who are proficient at writing copy. English is not the first language of many of them. Give them some slack. It is not for lack of respect, it is because of inexperience in writing ads. You could offer to write ads for members. Clever


by GSCat on 26 July 2017 - 23:07

When I see these ads, I think about temperament differences first.

My current GSD is a very high drive dog... awesome for police or military work, or personal protection. A friend has a GSD, which is a lower drive dog that is not a good candidate for police or military work, but is an awesome seeing eye dog. Both have good conformation.

Puppies in the same litter can have a range of temperaments, although the temperaments of the sire and dam will give good clues as to what to expect. Hence, a breeder might recommend certain puppies from a litter for one purpose or another, and recommend other puppies from the same litter for a different purpose.

Another thing I think about is color/pattern. It seems as if there are few sables in the show ring; everything seems to be black and tan of various patterns. Working GSD seem to be any color/pattern.

Finally, I think of structure. When I think of the current show GSD in the U.S., I think of the sloped/agulated backs and hips, and the black and tan patterns. When I think of working GSD, I think of a high drive GSD, which may or may not have good conformation, and which may be any GSD color/pattern.

When I think of a breeding GSD, the conformation and health must be stellar. Then, what kind of drive a person looks for in a breeding dog will depend on the purpose for which the person wants to breed. Since different lines tend to produce different temperaments, colors, and structures, GSD line breeding becomes important. If an especially good specimen is produced with representative temperament, structure, AND health characteristics of the line, strong consideration for use of that dog for breeding may be important to the future of the breed, and this potential influence on many generations of GSD may trump consideration as a working or show dog, especially in the case of females.

YMMV.

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 27 July 2017 - 05:07

I would also add, paraphrasing Susie's post:

An unhealthy GSD (hips/elbows/skin/blood +) is no working prospect; and an unhealthy GSD is no Show prospect, either.

Perhaps it would help sellers and breeders (and buyers) to keep THOSE points in mind, too, and 'square the circle' in their heads.

While I appreciate Fantom's point about language difficulties, it does seem to me also that there are times when such ads (and indeed some posts) are written from a perspective of someone who does not give a toss about the Standard or about maintaining the breed as one (healthy, properly constructed) breed; just about making money off its back.


by duke1965 on 27 July 2017 - 05:07

health is important allways, furthermore I dont have any problem with people describing expected suitability of a dog, if done honestly

not every dog born or sold is a superstar that can exel in sport, show and be breedable,all in one dog

 and it will give the buyer idea about the dog offered

so no big problem IMO


Fantom76 (admin)

by Fantom76 on 27 July 2017 - 05:07

I agree that all of these things are important and should be included, but perhaps we might be giving the prospective buyer a bit more than they can handle.

The more that people know, the more they usually want to know. The ads with less information are probably more attractive to someone who knows very little about GSD's, and is confused by all the information and is just looking for a black and tan GSD like they had when they were a kid.

You can't assume that everyone is as knowledgeable about the breed as many of you on here are. They should not be breeding dogs, but we know that they do.

Like the woman many years ago who walked up to me while I was walking my black GSD and asked if she could use my male as stud for her black lab. I guess that she just liked the color.


Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 27 July 2017 - 13:07

Oh, I don't know - some people swear by a Lab X GS (inc Guide Dogs for the Blind), provided the individual dogs have the right temperament for the work. Wink Smile

In my mind, if you want a crossbreed, it can be a nice one; but experience tells me that it can also be a right PItA one, as well !

 

But Fantom, there is nothing wrong with expecting buyers to be better-informed (to MAKE themselves better informed) if they are going to take on a living, sensient creature like a dog, to be part of their lives.

It is too easy, and too unfair to the dogs, to give them a pass on not knowing anything about what they are trying to buy.

[Its like: if you read a word you don't understand, go and get a dictionary & look it up; don't just walk off and grin about how 'clever' it is that you don't know much.]


Fantom76 (admin)

by Fantom76 on 27 July 2017 - 14:07

I agree ... and we do want to educate people, but many people do not want the bother of learning something new.  They think they already know everything.  We can only keep trying.

Bet you are near my age, otherwise you would have said "Google It", not get a dictionary.  Clever Do people even buy them anymore?


Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 27 July 2017 - 17:07

I haven't had to buy one for a good many years - they last quite well, despite the OED fad for putting in new words each edition ! If something seems made up & computer age, and its not listed in my dictionaries, THEN I Google it. Think it will be a while before the language of dog keeping and training changes all that much. Tongue Smile






 


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