How difficult is it to breed for both looks/structure and working ability? - Page 6

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by ValK on 06 September 2021 - 21:09

seems like on the border they are trying to recreate past type of GSDs.

by duke1965 on 07 September 2021 - 04:09

valk, commercial breeders are in it for selling pups first, someone send me a pedigree ling recently on PDB from a well known breeder, the pedigree could have been from any commercial breeder today, famous dog, bred to daugter of famous dog, bred to daugter of famous dog, that is not breeding IMO, thats producing pups for purpose of selling.

by johan77 on 07 September 2021 - 16:09

Valk, the pictures you posted earlier showed some difference in looks also and not all of the same type, looks not so different from many dogs today. Did the former DDR breeders pay more attention to looks than the workingline breeders did in westgermany? The footage I´ve seen from DDR-dogs in the late 80s there seemed to be dogs ranging from looking more like showlines in anatomy to "normal" looking dogs with not so big size and mass. But of course also more the more "masculine" type. Maybe not so different from west because they had shows and sport/working events also there and not all breeders had the same taste as today;)

The breed already have changed more than once in history in structure but before the 70s they seemed pretty similar in structure, after that even some workinglines started to get more "showy" in structure and I guess this wouldn´t have happened if structural type was selected by function first.

by ValK on 08 September 2021 - 16:09

duke, can you name non commercial breeders of today's?

johan, i wouldn't say dogs in earlier post "not so different from many dogs today". sure they do have alike standing ears, four legs and tail.
b.t.w. they did bark too :) and similarity pretty much ends on this.
you see, structural appearance of those dogs was based on desire to have physically strong dogs with high endurance capacity and to be effective real life a manstopper if situation come to this. everything you can see in build of those dogs has rational reasons, founded on purposes dogs been used for. dogs, bred at border, never been meant to other purposes. i will leave alone temperament aspects, which was very different from used modern one.
in regard of civilian breeders in DDR, i wasn't part of it and cannot say why they bred as they did it. you should take to consideration diversity of purposes dogs was used for, amount of people involved and variety of different conceptions every individual has. fashion trend of the day also can't be discounted as well. dogs of the 80s did become more light weighted and more picturesque in sport spectacles than earlier dogs.


by kitkat3478 on 03 October 2021 - 23:10

Valik, how is it you are the only person to repeatedly state that there was no DDR breeding program when all these border patrol dogs came about, that they came from random civilian breeders, yet there are detailed registry books for DDR dogs , that kept records of everything about the dogs. The dogs Are all similar in build and temperaments. Not only that, everything you read about DDR dogs tells you they were bred specifically for border patrol AND bred to a very strict standard.
Not trying to be rude here but really, you just seem to be an expert on everything German Shepherd, except when it came time to your getting. Shepherd for yourself.
And would you explain my producing 3 German Shepherds that went on to become certified police k9 in the State of New York from just some cute dogs.
Maybe New York has a lower standard then any place else in The world as the requirements for their police dogs. That must be it huh. Or maybe it was just some dumb luck that 3 of mine made it in.
There can be no other explanation being as according to the way you see it., They don t make German shepherds the way they used to.


by Xeph on 04 October 2021 - 00:10

It’s hard. I find it extremely difficult, personally, but I still try. That said, my focus (for my personal dogs, my buyers do a lot more) is on sheep work. I’m no longer interested in schutzhund/IPO/IGP.

American dogs have, amazingly, largely retained the drive to work stock. I’ve had very few of my dogs who haven’t turned on. I have intense workers and good thinkers.

People can poo poo it all the want. I value the intensity and desire in my dogs that work sheep.


by Rik on 04 October 2021 - 14:10

xeph, I think a lot of people really do not realize that if anyone is going to breed dogs that get out of the back yard and compete against other breeders/dogs (and the venue/reason/ competition) doesn't matter, they are going to have to breed dogs that meet the requirements of that venue.

anyway, just want to say that after many years with ASL/CSL, the number of folks that I know who have started in showing, stuck with it, figured out what it's about, went on to not only breed AKC Champions but self handle them is pretty miniscule, to say the least.


xeph statement " I find it extremely diffulcult" is probably the most honest evaluation I have seen here.

unless you want to believe "banana" backs are science.


by GSCat on 05 October 2021 - 05:10


Thanks for posting the pic with the truck. Brings back some nice memories 🙂


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