UAP (one type of elbow dysplasia) just diagnosed in 13 month old intact male - please help - Page 1

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by kmaot on 25 September 2016 - 23:09

Hello.
See above. Male had Pano quite severely around 8 months of age seen on xrays. Fever and xray. Very lean and active however.

He is 13 months and went lethargic again....decided to have hips and elbows done. Hips and one elbow clean. One elbow showing quite the UAP (elbow dysplasia) and we are seeing a surgeon for consult tomorrow.

He has had Pano from perhaps 7 or 8 months onward and even these xrays re elbows show the remodeling isn't complete. I do not know if there are arthritic changes or anything yet and really other than a time or 2 I have seen no lameness but if i have it was consistent with Pano and lack of energy and lack of appetite. So I do not know if the UAP is causing an issue or not.

A surgeon will of course recommend to operate (perhaps). This is a young male that was to be a running companion for my son....or that I wanted to jump in and out of a truck. I am nothing short of devastated and yes....parents were clear on xrays.

I know I will receive a recommendation tomorrow but I am asking the GSD community for their input on what may be appropriate for a 13 month old just Dx that has drive and loves to run . I know the surgical options through research and are looking for opinions and experiences.

Thanks very much.

bubbabooboo

by bubbabooboo on 25 September 2016 - 23:09

If you give a veterinarian 100 x rays and have them pick out the dogs with pano based on just the x rays they will fail unless you tell them which dogs have pano before they look at the x rays.  Pano does not normally affect joints ... generally long bones.  It is difficult to isolate the pain in pano to one joint or leg.  I have had dogs with pano that had perfect hips and legs at 2 years.  What you described would also be consistent with an injury caused by a jump down or fall from heights,  weight bearing or crushing type accident,  or an injury involving a larger animal putting weight on the young dog sufficient to damage the leg at 4 months forward.  In injury cases the dog may have torn muscles and scar tissue that inhibits natural movement and gait.

 


Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 26 September 2016 - 06:09

There is a disconnect here anyway, Pano is unrelated to any of the elbow displasia conditions and a dog with both is just bloody unlucky. He will eventually grow out of his Pano symptoms; (if indeed he really has Pano and not just soft tissue injury) but UAP IS likely to be problematic and, as Bubba says, is a joint fault.

As I understand it, he will almost certainly need surgery. I have escaped having to live with and treat any of mine with UAP, but I am sure there are others on here who can give you the benefit of their experience.

Wishing you and your dog all the best.


Jenni78

by Jenni78 on 26 September 2016 - 13:09

Out of curiosity, what was this dog fed, exactly? And you mention in and out of a truck; was he permitted to jump out of a truck already? For my anecdotal "knowledge bank" I like to find out the environment of dogs w/joint issues.

Can you post the xray? Believe it or not, I have actually had a dog misdiagnosed with UAP! And a puppy buyer had another dog diagnosed and operated on the same day when he went in for OFA xrays and the same vet told him the female from me had mildly dysplastic elbows and bad hips. They looked perfect on Xray. I told him to send to OFA to prove I was correct and vet was full of it, and she was graded OFA excellent and normal elbows. So...post the xrays if you have them. That will help answer whether he needs surgery or not. If it is an obvious fragment, I would have it arthroscopically removed so it doesn't cause further damage to the cartilage in the joint.

Damage to the distal ulnar physis can cause UAP, as well...so just having clear parents isn't enough. You must control environmental causes and dietary as well. Nothing is ever easy!

by kmaot on 26 September 2016 - 14:09

An imageHe was fed Nutro Large breed Adult food and yes he has jumped in and out of trucks. Only one elbow shows UAP.  Looks to my layperson eyes the Pano is still causing him issues.


Prager

by Prager on 27 September 2016 - 16:09

It is "funny"  that if it is just one leg on a dog then it is usually the left elbow. You need to get the piece of the bone removed or screwed in if possible. IMO if you want the best for your dog you can not avoid remove of the "broken off piece" . If you do not remove it it will cause arthritic problems. Sooner the better. This will not get better on it's own. This may be done with arthroscopic surgery . That is the way I would go.  


bubbabooboo

by bubbabooboo on 28 September 2016 - 17:09

There is some evidence that crowding, positioning, larger litter size (ie crowding ), and other environmental prenatal factors ( nutrition, vaccines, viruses ) can affect skeletal development before birth. It's not all genetic in dogs or humans.

by Swarnendu on 28 September 2016 - 18:09

Bubbabooboo, that sounds really very convincing, but can you point us to some actual scientific researches on that?

Thank you.

bubbabooboo

by bubbabooboo on 28 September 2016 - 23:09

Search fetal programming and neonatal skeletal development ... dogs have a very short gestation period and are likely more responsive to external physical insults and stressors than even humans. A library has been written on humans and many of the common mammals living with humans as food or service animals such as horses. Fetal programming can affect mental and physical development life long. Perhaps best known are fetal alcohol syndrome and diabetic mother related fetal effects.

Jenni78

by Jenni78 on 29 September 2016 - 00:09

Sorry, I am late responding. Have the fragment taken out. It will cause further damage. I would NOT go for the screw approach. If they are very young, sometimes you can have a screw in place until the bone fuses, but at his age, it's unlikely and I have had a screw go very very bad. I'd never opt for a screw- just take it out.







 


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