Trying to get prepared for a new puppy! - Page 1

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by Mprimm on 07 December 2016 - 01:12

I have been looking for a puppy for some time now and have finally found a breeder and made plans to get a puppy this spring. I have owned two GSD’s in the past 10 years and currently have a six year old male that is solely a family pet as his working drives are minimal. He is a great dog but not a working dog.

I have some training experience and trained with a local schutzhund club several years ago but that club is no longer together. I have never titled a dog but I am confident that I could have put a BH on both of my GSD’s. However I know I have made a lot of training mistakes in the past and would like to be as prepared as possible when I get my puppy. Are there any training videos that are geared towards IPO that you all would recommend or other training avenues that I could pursue to get prepared?

by vk4gsd on 07 December 2016 - 02:12

Michael Ellis food video.

That's all you need.

by Nans gsd on 07 December 2016 - 02:12

Yes love his videos. Thanks VK...

Q Man

by Q Man on 07 December 2016 - 02:12

I don't know and have never seen Michael Ellis' videos...but I have used and still use a lot of food with puppies all the way including adults and trial dogs...
It's a great way to teach your puppies/dogs obedience at a young age without corrections...It is also great for any foundation work you'd like to do...

To me there are a couple things that you need to do with puppies...That is lay foundation work for later and to Promote Drive...Promoting Drive is probably the harder to learn but just teach your puppy to chase a toy (ball...kong...)...I like to use soft small towels too...If you're careful you can do these things all the while puppies are teething...

Get a "Flirt Pole"...and if you don't know how to use it...just ask...It's great for puppies...

I have heard that Michael Ellis' ways of training are very good and would never hurt to see them and pick what you like from them...as in any training...

~Bob~

von Kazmaier

by von Kazmaier on 07 December 2016 - 16:12

Go to ebay and buy the OLDER books. You might be surprised that less than $4 can buy a good book. I bought, I think 3 Schutzhund books there...and it will be fun for you to sit down with a warm blanket and hot cocoa and read.....and look at the photos and dream..... www.workinggermanshepherddogs.com

by Mprimm on 07 December 2016 - 16:12

Bob, is there anything in particular that you do to lay a foundation for IPO?
I watched a video of a guy working a puppy using a rag and after and while tugging on the rag he tell the puppy "hold" and did this several times. It would think that he was laying a foundation for when it was time to hold the dumbbell? Is this what you mean by laying a foundation?

by Centurian on 08 December 2016 - 18:12

Mprimm
A nice question and for new dog owners/ people THE MOST important notion . However, a subject way to entailed for a thread.

I would talk to you and say back up a moment. Meaning , the beginging and very beginging is KNOWING and UNDERSTANDING who and what your dog is as well as yourself. Yourself , because all in dog teaching , first lies with having mastered myself. This is a seminar in itself and to complicated for me to write about in a post . Except I give you some points , in order to make my point.
For example I always talk to my dog , not in commands but plain  simple  talk , and in what is the most important feature: a voice with Normality in pitch , tone , frequency and cadence. This is important as the pup being a family companion and more so as a pup becoming a future competitor. One reason I advocate this notion is that : the dog will always cue on you , because dogs respond more non-verbally than verbally. If my voice , my mouth , is not consistant with what I say to my dog non-verbally then how can I expect to teach  most optimally to my dog ? My dog learns this about me [  my congruence or lack of it which helps or  confuses my dog] . How I interact with it , from day 1 becomes importasnt to the future of it's learning. . In esscence - your mouth can betray you in teaching your dog from day 1 to any day in the dog's and your life. With  that also goes controlling my thoughts and emotions in order to expect that from the dog. . That is just two  notions that I believe are critical in preparting for the pup. This is a whole seminar I can give on this topic. Don't underestimate this.. how you present to your pup and how you expect it to present to you is the begingning of the start of your releationship that is the Coernerstone to every single thing that will transpire.
My job is : Knowing and understanding my puppy : that began the first time I looked visually and abstractly at the puppy and that puppy looked at me . And I mean exactly- that very second . And evey other second of the puppies life - is a second that it is learning. foundation or no foundation !
       That is to say , if I wanted this dog for competition or any other endeavor, before I bought this puppy I should already have become familiar with it's characteristics , attributes , potential and traits. And if I hadn't then the first step is for me 'to know my puppy ' going on to developing my relationship , which includes how my puppy sees me---- anything and eveything [ that could make up a person] about me. . Simple things like : I say what I mean and what I mean I say [ verbally or non-verbally] as well as I say something once, one time as a frequest [ not a comman]. I have ' complete dominion over you puppy ' , but yet I don't verbally or physically dominate. Again , another topic for a day seminar. I will 'attend to you and I teach you to always alway always attain to me and we become one unit , like a family becomes one unit interacting and working together for commonality in life. I write this for beginers but I too see that even with experienced people , everything is about training  exercises by some technique or method .To me this is faulty thinking. Teaching and  so called training exercisies are not entirely the same. 

    In reference to ' drive promotion' Schutzhund concept . Why , why the need to promote drive [ for whatever that word in the singular means] . A very very stupid Sch , generalized descriptive, adjective. Because of the following [ trying to humbly , not arrogantly state this ] : But my puppy itself , not from the titled status of the parents and lineages , but the puppy unto ITSELF , either has the potential , capabilities to do a specific performances behaviorally or it doesn't. There is genetically not any in between . We cannot make a dog what it is not, yet we can bring out the potential for what it can be and influence that. If you have to ' promote drive ', constandly intensely motivate the puppy /dog , then you have the wrong puppy [ genetically ] selected for your and his purposes. did the poster talk this over while buying the puppy , see the puppy before the decision to buy it - I don't know .. 

    From day 1 the pups learns , as I wrote,  whether we care or not : So the flirt pole use:
The most important aspect of that pole , is again to learn about my puppy as well as to teach the puppy skills [ I don't waste time promoting the pup to wanting  to do ]. I study the puppy  because in the puppy foundation it is my place to learn about the puppy . in that way I make the decisions in teaching. So prpeasring is the base to learn , what decisions are to be made. 

    How does the dog chase , is it intense like fire or is it's character more pensive and calculating when going for the bite and as it chases . When it bites , how does it bite. I look at the quality and quantity of the bite : is it full and tenacious , does it shake it's head to want to kill the tug ? Will the pup get distracted in chasing in different situations ? Does it perservere on the bite ? Is the bite always full ? And much more . Because this will tell me what skills I have to improve on with the pup , [ not promote] as well as , how I teach and what I teach. For example , if I see a pup chase fast , doesn't tire or give up in the chase then I can have this pup jump in water , jump over an article , go around objects , many many passes of the pole , bam the tug comes fast into on my body and the pup bites right on me into the tug. If I see a pup less inclined themn I know not to pass his threshold so that it stops the chase. This pup , maybe I choose , 1 or 2 passes of the pole and then right into , onto my body for the bite. This builds success and then with success I can extend the time the pup will chase and learn preserverence. I build success , and this leads to confidence in skills , performance , emboldenment . Foundation  and it's preparation entails a decision making process . n individual dog /owner requires an individual decision process. IMO , one shoe fits all teaching program is not conducive.  The most important aspect for a puppy is : that PLAY IS LEARNING and what I want to teach as a puppy is in play** !  I let puppies BE PUPPIES . Also the purpose is of the firt pole aside from developing skill in fun/ play rather is learning about my pup to make future teaching decisions. Also my relationship develops by interacting and having fun. The skill improvement is just a side result of the interaction , playing and learning. Learning what I must do and how to do it .... the purpose of IMOp , the flirt pole. Drive promotion ... hmmmm -- another topic for seminar.

   The first and most important feature about a new pup is setting and creating the most optimal relationship. I attend to the dog and all it's needs psychologically , emotionally , and physically. I teach the dog to 'attend to' , no not attention , I write to 'attend to me ' . The dog learns that ' I always always always can be trusted to attend to it '. The notionof the dog giving attention is not entirely correct. This attending goes much much deeper psychologically that mere attention. This is month long seminar.


   Remember everything about an animal depends on SURVIVAL. Safety , trust , common goals to survival. Control of and the distribution of resources . Manners [ different than so called obedience] . Clearly set and communicated physical and psycoological/behavioral limits. I teach calmness and self control , without one iota of force , threat , etc etc. . That is to say the pup is taught how it channels it's energy , behavior , self control itself.  Do keep in mind : all the little things add up to big things - teachiung and learning is cumulative  . For example , If I cannot, as a pup teach it to be in a crate and prevent itself from acting like a nut when I go to let it out. Then why should I feel that I am worthy later to teach this dog to control itself to 'out' when it is in the middle of a confrontation. Or if I want to teach the dog to 'leave it' , when leaving it is in it's interest*** , [ at about 16 wks , as a guide , sometimes later ]. I teach 'leave it 'and ' out' without force , control , commands . [ I teach the out at about 20 weeks ] . With certain pups just teach an out with food , other times on a bite tug itself . I stress , this is not about the pup performing a protection out as much as instilling within the pup to have self control and implulse control , which will transfer to the out in combat later . I don't describe the manner of teaching here . However , my point is that within our relationship i control myself to attend to my pup such that the result is that the pup learns , like a mirror image the same, to control itself , channel it's energy and motivations. The pup learns to trust me , take my ddirection , etc. And the pup's behaviors become balanced in in future performingas an adult Bottom line - for me verything is upon the relationship that I set which you need to have in your mind before you get the puppy.

Unfortunately .... by my teachings and perspectives ... I haven't even scratched the surface for preparation , laying foundation and early puppy teaching. Also unfortunately , many Sch clubs that I have visited , fall short.. and I guess you work with what is available.  I see helpers work gs that they have never formerly or informerly temperment tested or gotten to know . Simply the dog is taken on the field and worked - Many times I feel like smacking that helper , director , on the head and saying : if you have not understood that handler and dog team then you have no business working with them and especially that dog. So a similar notion to new dog owners : take the time to know your puppy , develop your relationship via communication , and teaching. The biggest mistake : DOING TO MUCH TO FAST before each step to developing is ready. Teach and CORRECTLY IMPRINT , but the flip side is to not push the puppy to fast , to hard.


   Videos are only a start. Yes Michael Ellis offers good advice , worth the money and viewing of you are new to sport . Books are ok , I threw all my books away 25 years ago .. Because they are a start .. just a start. Even Presidents of the US still take public speaking classes and they are pros. people in the GS world should visit fundamentals too. So even  professionals  need to entertain shared thoughts and ideas constantly. So don't think discussing preperation is off limits to anyone.

     We learn by doing and doing. Everybody , every dog is different and unique. So on that notion I don't work dogs the same , I don't even entertain methods and techiniques . I simply have in mind notions like : 'how do I say this to my dog in dog language' , how do I set him up and guide him to lean a skill or a lesson. For example a dog sits.. If I want to each a straight sit--- easy the dog is set up to sit and only sit straight by placing something on his immediate left , immediate right such that he can't sit crooked. This can be in front , to my left , to my right. I teach this to an 8 week puppy . Puppies do sit , ... I just communicate without saying a word to the pup : this is where and how best to sit. Once the dog sits I can reinforce that behavior with our interaction [ there are different ways to interact , yes?] . AND NO, not reward, I mean and purposely wrote 'reinforce' the behavior .

So .. I end.. Work with someone that KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE DOING [ how to teach YOu to teach YOUR dog]. The forum here , as even in my rambling post , is far to inadequate for your question and answer and to fully prepare yourself and your puppy. Good luck. 


Chaz Reinhold

by Chaz Reinhold on 08 December 2016 - 18:12

Mod edit. Deleted the smart ass comment suggest you keep them for your usual haunt....the OT forum. If you have nothing constructive to say keep your fingers from the keyboard. Any further comments like the one I deleted will also be deleted. mrdarcy (mod)


Q Man

by Q Man on 08 December 2016 - 23:12

Mprimm : Yes...You play Tug-o-War with your puppy...Just like you probably did as a kid with your dog...But when playing with a puppy just be sure to follow a few rules...First: Don't play so hard and hurt your puppy...ONLY play as hard as the puppy allows...Second: Remember that the puppy ALWAYS wins...Winning means letting the puppy win the Rag/Sack/Towel or whatever you're using...I like soft small towels...Remember too that your puppy will be teething and you don't want to play so hard has to pull those teeth out...although their gums will bleed a bit you just don't want to play too hard...
Then you should learn how to get the puppy to bite the rag with a "full mouth" grip...by that it's meant to take the rag or towel all the way in the mouth to the back jaw...
Just like playing with a "flirt pole" or toy...Play with the puppy to make them to want to chase and get it...(It's what a mama dog would teach a dog in the wild to chase "game" for food)...It's the same drives...

~Bob~

by beetree on 08 December 2016 - 23:12

Well. Enjoy your new puppy. I don't think it has to be quite the Jedi journey but certain concepts mentioned ny Centurion, I probably do by my own instinct, too.

Consistency is a key goal with training, IMHO. If you have family members interacting with the puppy, make sure everyone is on the same page, philosophically.





 


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