Mineral deposit in the shoulder???? - Page 2

Well said, jillmissal. I sometimes think that a not entirely unreasonable caution about making sure one understands what the vet is saying, and what we are paying (and why) for which procedures, can blind people to 99% of the reason we use the vet profession in the first place. The odd rogue vet does occur, of course, but generally these are people who undertake long years of study because they care about animals. If the keyboard warriors want to run down everything said and done in the name of veterinary medicine because of rising costs, they would do better to examine the role of the Insurance companies in "How come some people are making such a good living out of my dog ?"

jillmissal: Educate yourself? How exactly?.........
 

Prager Hans: Let me first say that I am not against all vets and that I love my vets ( Husband and wife). But your arrogance and condescension are amazing. So you are against educated dog owners? Why? Do educated people make your job more difficult by asking relevant questions? Do you feel that they are waste of your time?

 Yes, I read books and on the Internet. I study where ever I can. I read scientific studies on the topic and I read what other "8 YEARS EDUCATED VETS" are saying. Heck I even read what naturopathic "8 years educated vets" are saying and even what the "nut job Mercola" as you call him, even though he vent to callege for at least 8 years and is    educated physician is saying.

 A Chinese proverb says: " Ask thousand people and then make up your mind" I think that is very wise and I  suggest that people visiting their vet do the same. Is that bad? I do the same about my health. My and my dog's health is my responsibility and not my doctor's doctor is just a tool for me to help me to do the best for me and my dog  and that is why I want to know as much as possible about my vet and what my vet is saying, my options, what he is suggesting, and why and what questions to ask when I do not understand so that I  can make the best decision about my and my dog's heath.  Is that so bad that I do not want to be  a proverbial lemming and jump of the cliff when vet says jump?   Heck, amazingly some people do the same thing with their health physician. I know some people do not want nor do not care to know. Bless their hearts. I am not against them and I do understand them. Life may be easier for them that way. 

But, there are many people who want to know. They want to know as much as there is to know on the topic of the heath of theirs or their dog or any other topic.   Personally, I like to have an educated discussion with my vet or my physician,  who does not feel threatened by educated ( or annoyed by stupid) questions. I know some vets do not like that and want  their patients to just shut up, take the meds for their dog without knowing what they are or what sideffect they have or if there are alternative meds, spay, and neuter their dog and pay and get the hell out of their chrome and glass office with Porche parked in the back parking lot so that they can get money from next patient pocket into their pocket. I know one vet who tried charge to my friend up front $7000 for treating his dying dog with  dog's intestinal blockage and other charged only $750 because the patient had no money and actually did the procedure for free and I payed for him what ever the vet said. I know of vets who would turn me away because it was 20 minutes before they close and he did not have time for my dog with flipped stomach, and then I know of vet ... well...never mind that. And then, on the other hand, I know a vet who waited for me and my poisoned dog in front of the office with full staff and gurney well after the hours to take care of my dog's emergency. And I know of a vet who will answer my questions over the phone even though he makes no money that way.   Thus I am not saying that all vets are bad vets, but how would I know who is what unless I educate myself.

People spend hours figuring out what TV or car they should get, but they go to the vet just because he is conveniently close by and only necessary qualification in their eyes is expressed by the fact that he must have 8 years of eductaion and thus must be the best vet for my dog and because he wears a white overcoat.

 Personally, I drive to my vet 45 miles in traffic and go past 10ns of vet clinic closer. Why? Because I have figured out that they are the best for me and my dog by asking others and by my trial and error that he and his wife are very knowledgeable, make himself available, and I can have an intelligent discussion about my dog's health and they appreciate that I know a bit about the health of my dog. He  wears no wite over coat by freshly pressed shirt and jeans he drives a pickup truck, does not have over the top chrome and glass architectonic wonder office building in a prime location office, and he does not have a problem to say "I do not know" and then goes and study some more on most current facts which can help my dogs. I admire such. 

 In the end, I would say that 8 years eduction vets get is basic qualification minimum but that alone is not sufficient for me  to hire a vet to take care of my dog. I also went to a prestigious university in Europe and I know that some graduates are better than others and that some pass so-so and some pass as experts.  I want to deal with the best of the best. Any vet threatened by this has probably something to hide. 

 I also know that according to a recent study by Johns Hopkins, more than 250,000 people  (other studies suggest double that!!!) in the United States die every year because of medical mistakes, making it the third leading cause of death after heart disease and cancer. It is probably safe to say that physicians have a better education than vets thus it is safe to say that the vets make even more mistakes. So when you say that vets are experts because they vent to school for 8 years I will say as Sean Connery said in a League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: " I am still waiting to be impressed." 

Prager~ Amen! Great post and is full of wise advice for sure!
Not taking away from the formal education of diligent veterinarians who study and earn their degee etc ,,, I respect what they have to offer~
However, a wise man seeks “much” counsel when making important decisions about these kinds of matters and doing your own research is to be commended in every way ! Always ,,,,
Thanks for the post!

well, I once had a very nice Javir daughter. after 1'st heat, she had very bad cramp problem in abdomen. rush her to my vet, he has the 8 years school + 25 years in business. also I consider him a friend of many years.

after 3 days, he calls me in to show me x-rays of "foreign" oblect my dog has swallowed and does surgery to remove it.

on getting her open, it is not foreign object, but infection. he spays her, calls me to come pick her up and charges $1700.00 U.S.

that night, she burst open, insides fall out and she is dead in crate next morning.

so, yea, vets are needed, but anyone who thinks they are infallible, good luck to you and your pocket book.

jmo,
Rik

"that night, she burst open, insides fall out and she is dead in crate next morning"

In other words, she dehisced--the sutures failed. Hmm...most common cause of sutures failing? Dog removes them because it is not under direct observation and is not wearing any sort of device to prevent the animal from getting at the incision. That's not the fault of the vet, that's on the owner. It's very rare for sutures to fail of their own accord, unless the skin is in such bad shape that it can't handle the tension of the closure.


As for initially misdiagnosing the pyometra, if you didn't tell the vet that she'd just finished up her heat cycle, it's not completely unreasonable that he initially thought she had a foreign object in her abdomen, though knowing she was an intact female he really should have asked, and one would expect that she'd also have a moderately high fever and her bloodwork would be suggestive of an infection.

"Most common cause of sutures failing ? Dog removes them because its not under observation and isn't wearing any device to prevent the animal getting at the incision" - Just what I was thinking ...

Agree with Hexe about the Vet in Rik's case though, too - unless there are other elements of that we don't know about.

Hexe : Dog removes them because it is not under direct observation and is not wearing any sort of device to prevent the animal from getting at the incision. That's not the fault of the vet, that's on the owner.

 

Hans: You must be just jesting. What we see here is an example of blaming the victim.

This "device" you are talking about is called Elizabethan collar(There are others),Yes, it is that crazy lamp shape looking contraption.    The Elizabethan collar would do the trick and stop the dog from pulling stitches. But putting the collar on the dogs is not a responsibility of the dog owner as you are wrongfully suggesting. Any vet with 8 years education should know that dog can pull the stitches. !!!! I would like to ask Jillmissal and hexe  what do the "expert vets" study for 8 years if not such a trivial basics. Maybe they study there what is the best way to blame a victim? 

That is EXACTLY  the reason why I am saying that the dog owner should educate itself and know this as well. I bet any reader here is now educated enough to ask about Elizabethan collar so their dog does not pull out stitches from their belly and die.

In the OP's circumstance, I would advise the friend to do the bloodwork. Better safe than sorry. If they do not like the vet, take all the paperwork to another one. I would still advise on that bloodwork, though.

To each their own. If you want to trust every word that comes out of a vet's mouth, go ahead. It is not for I, though.

I also agree with Prager's thoughts on educating oneself. I try to be an educated owner and am amazed at the ignorance of most people about the health of their animals.

The Mercola Healthy Pets/Dr. Karen Becker newsletters contain a lot of good information. I question why someone would call it "nutjob".

As far as the original poster's question, I would suggest contacting a veterinary college to see if they could help with any information/second opinion.

Prager, I don't know of a vet that doesn't send a dog home in an Elizabethan collar after a surgery...but I know of far too many owners who take the collar off the dog when they get home, either because they feel bad for the dog, the collar is too clumsy and knocks stuff over, or the dog can't fit into its crate with the collar on. So yeah, if the vet sends the dog home with the collar and the owner takes it off, it's the owner's fault if the dog removes it's sutures. And I doubt that you've 'educated' a host of people on here about Elizabethan collars--even people without pets are familiar with 'the lampshade' thing. You might have provided news to maybe one person out of thousands, if that.

By now, I'd have thought you would have figured out that I'm a proponent of owners becoming more educated about the medical care of their dogs--otherwise, why would I go to the trouble of posting information here and elsewhere in answer to questions people pose about various illnesses or conditions? Why would I bother to post links to reference materials that can aid someone in becoming better educated about their dog? I don't benefit in any way from under-informed owners taking their dogs in to a vet--I switched from working in a practice to regulatory veterinary medicine over 20 years ago, so I don't have any skin in the game. I gladly tell people when their pet has something that the owner can handle themselves, at home, or when something warrants observation but not an immediate vet visit--but I also won't tell an owner to ignore something that has the potential to go badly very quickly, or that there's no need for diagnostic testing when it's truly needed to get a clear picture of what's affecting the animal.

Edited to add: Oh, and there are alternatives to the Elizabethan collar--THAT may come as news to some people.  The Bite-Not collar, the KONG Cloud Collar, the Comfy Cone, etc. are all variations on the theme, but differ in size or shape or rigidity and can be more comfortable or house- and crate-friendly than the traditional collar. There's also the option of close-fitting recovery garments, marketed as Suiticals, VetMed Wear, Surgi Snugglys and so on, which protect the surgical site.