Defense - Page 13

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by joanro on 30 April 2016 - 16:04

Gee, thanks.

I like your youngster.
Good training.


by duke1965 on 30 April 2016 - 16:04

@ Prager, I know it is different to make dog switch between equipment and civil, but there is a plus and a minus to everything

by using equipment first and switch, the dog is put in higher gear before engaging or trying to engage on civil, so a bunch of dogs will look better when pumped on equipment first

I must say yor dog in video showed desired behaviour on civil, only thing I would have worked the dog a little shorter sessions as he looked a little empty on the end and less focussed, but definately a nice dog

when looking for switch in prey/civil I like a dog to work like this

https://youtu.be/EJROBs0RYyk



by duke1965 on 30 April 2016 - 16:04

@joan, dont know what your dog will do but it is not about what you make a dog do,
as soon as your dog won the jacket he had no interest in the decoy anymore where the dog from Hans dropped the jacket and refocussed on the helper, that is not difference in training but difference in intention of the dog,
Hans dog may not have full points for grip in IPO but that is a dog when matured most likely to save your ass at night in the city in untrained situations

by joanro on 30 April 2016 - 16:04

Think what you will, duke, vid only shows a little. Ofcorse you are going to be partial.

No interest in the decoy...no, he was coming back to me on the line and the decoy was being very passive to allow the dog to not reengage. Makes no difference, you guys need to sell dogs, I don't. 

What you didnt get to see because the camera was shut off, was the dog spit the jacket soon as he hit the ground, turned and faced the decoy, who got off the truck, reengaged the dog. 

Duke, I'm not trying to make my living selling dogs, I do this for fun, a hobby. But at least my dog can do naturally what most guys have work at, (lots have to start their pups from birth) with hours and weeks, months of training  to condition their dogs to work.

I have already had my dog save my asss in real life, no speculating needed.. That female hans trained might be ok as long as the bad guy continues to jump around, and no sleeves are laying around between her and the bad guy. I prefer a steady dog like mine and gee's, to one so hectic...she is cute, tho.


yogidog

by yogidog on 30 April 2016 - 16:04

Gee nice videos young male took the sleeve spit and straight back on 👍bitch In muzzle looking big and strong with a lot of promise real dogs love it


by Gee on 30 April 2016 - 16:04

Yogidog - great to hear from you, and thanks very much for the feedback - appreciated.

Gee

by duke1965 on 30 April 2016 - 17:04

just call them as I see them Joan, nothing to do with selling or purpose of video or whatever, I dont have to be partial as well , Hans is definately no friend of mine but if the dog shows good work, that is what it is

Prager

by Prager on 01 May 2016 - 15:05

Gee that video is a good training for civil work.

But you say Focus and intend ? What is the intend of training dog like it is seen on Joan's video ( Pick up truck)? Dog is doing great indeed, but what is the intend of the test or of the training I see on that video. IMO It is not civil work. That is all I am saying. And I am not saying that the dog is not civil. That is a different issue. It probably is. I know what Joan produces. But I am talking about training here. I train PP/LE dogs and when I do I take great care that when I do train such dog then every step must be directed to such purpose of dog being civil. others do not train that way nor care for training for dog to be civil That is majority of trainers in sport and if the breeder just want to test the dog's mettle for breeding purposes. What I am trying to say here is that if the dog owner is looking for someone to train the dog civil work then IMO work from equipment to man presents a lot of hangups ( wrong defaults and undesirable associations ) which are impossible to eliminate in the dog by further training.
The OP is about DEFENSE. Thus I am assuming that the OP wants a dog who will protect him / her. if that is the case then there is probably reason and purpose for such training. Training where the foundation and defaults is dog targeting the equipment will generate dog which will always for rest of his life will have such hangup. I would say that IMO that hangups of any type are not desirable and can not not \r should be justified. There are ways to train dogs which install no or minimal negative hang ups . There is plenty of hangups in every dog we need to deal anyway without installing there some new one with our training methodology.
IMO]
Prager Hans

by joanro on 01 May 2016 - 16:05

Hans, I wasn't testing for civil in that dog...I already know that he is civil. I wanted to test his commitment in a totally new scenario and on very slick, bad footing, first time on a long line, only worked one time a year before with a decoy----jumping into truck was only the second time the dog was ever worked, with no pretraining...in other words, testing a completely green dog two times in his life. The first time when the dog was two yr old, on backtie ( second video) second time in back of truck as three year old...not rehearsed,( dog never put into back of a pick up before that vid). Like I said, I already knew the dog is civil, I wanted to see what he had to support it..dog showed me he has plenty as a completely green dog to support his civil side.

Btw, that is my personal dog, I have never bred him, have no intentions to breed him. If he produced like himself, there are not enough people who I think could handle such a dog. Even tho people continually claim they want a 'serious' bad ass' ''civil' dog, reality does not support the claims.


by Gee on 01 May 2016 - 16:05

Hi Hans,

Thanks for the kind comments re my civil vid, appreciated.

Joan actually posted two vids, the second one, the dog is tied back, the decoy is cracking a whip, her dog shows good focus and intent on that vid. (that is the vid i commented on, think it is on page 11 or 12 of this thread)

Regards
Gee






 


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