DM and breeding. - Page 6

Pedigree Database

 

by dogbyte on 25 September 2020 - 19:09

I have owned two GSDs with DM. The first was my first GSD. He was only 4 and this was long before much research and Dr Clemmons a the University of Florida was the only one doing any research. We were one of the first in the original Yahoo group, late 1990's. Chance was given Dr Clemmons suggested supplements and amino compounds. He live to be 13 and got his Sch III. We were to poster dog around d here trying to talk to working dog breeders at trials about DM. In Dr Clemmons early research, if I remember correctly fly from our conversations he felt that the GSD breed had it's own type. Fast forward many years and I had a black working line female.At about 6 years of age I noticed her starting to scrape her rear toe nails. Dr Clemmons was still testing blood and she came back at risk. At 7 she became only mobile in her cart For a year she continued to go tracking and play obedience while in her cart. Now people were much more receptive to believing it is a real issue in the breed. Is it different from one breed to another? Don't know. I know that the one DNA marker in dogs was also found in ALS patients, which claimed my father. To me, it is like many advances in science. Take what has been proven or shown as highly likely and use it to benefit the breed. Sorry so long, but watching my Xara go through what my dad had died of was extremely difficult. It had started to affect her front legs and swallowing. And since most dogs are well I to breeding age when symptoms show, I hope breeders will see the wisdom of at least trying to tip the scale in their puppies favor.


by jettasmom on 25 September 2020 - 19:09

I don’t like sounding like a broken record but here I go. An at risk dog bred to a clear female will not produce at risk pups. It can be bred out to where future pups are clear. I have no problem if a future pup is a carrier because he or she will never get DM.

Seems no one responds to breeding bad hips to good or excellent, hmmmmmm.

I know the disease is horrible and no I do not want to produce that at all.

Studies are studies and do other factors play a role, agility, IGP, Fastcat etc. any studies done in that????

by jillmissal on 26 September 2020 - 19:09

please show me a dog who tested high risk and then developed DM the only way you can prove a dog has DM is through necropsy per reading everything I can.

Pretty easy to demand such a silly thing; as if any of us have endless records of every dog in the world that has ever been tested for DM.

Frequently dianoses are done through observation per veterinarians; if you choose to not believe professional scientists in their area of expertise there is no helping you.

 

I am looking at the whole picture and want facts and proof.

 

No you don't, you want a simple way to be "right" and you're not. The proof and facts are readily available but nothing will be good enough for you. 

 

a carrier will not cause a devastating health problem, as long as you are using one clear partner in the breeding

Oh. Wow.  This is so bloody wrongheaded there is nowhere to go with this.  Once more for the people in denial in the back. We are NOT JUST LOOKING AT THE IMMEDIATE PROGENY. You pass a faulty gene on forever and ever if you keep breeding like this. hence, we have DM still as a problem.  

I'm honestly so sick of this garbage. There is NO EXCUSE AT ALL for breeding ANY DOG that has a proven copy of ANY GENE FOR A GENETIC DISEASE. NO EXCUSE WHATSOEVER. If you do this you are a terrible breeder and you need to stop producing puppies because you can't help yourself, you keep perpetuating bad breeding over and over and you don't care because YOU aren't the one that suffers.


by jillmissal on 26 September 2020 - 19:09

I have no problem if a future pup is a carrier

 

Stop breeding dogs please. 


by jettasmom on 26 September 2020 - 20:09

You have no clue what I do or don’t do with my dog so stop assuming before you have the proof to back up what you say.

You kinda sound like a PETA person. I mean that seriously

by duke1965 on 27 September 2020 - 06:09

jettasmom, no point in arguing with someone like that, he/she will not understand and agree even if the facts are in front of him/her

Baerenfangs Erbe

by Baerenfangs Erbe on 27 September 2020 - 15:09

jillmissal: The genepool is big enough to safe the breed. It is, it just needs to be used. People think it isn't, but according to better bred the overall GSD breed is not as bad off as the Doberman. But it's not so big that we can toss out every single carrier or at risk dog.

Sometimes an entire bloodline hangs on the hinges of a single DM Carrier dog and done right, you can continue that bloodline and with a lot of luck, a DM free dog out of the right combinations, if everything happens to be just right and falls into place.

by jillmissal on 28 September 2020 - 08:09

The genepool is big enough to safe the breed

 

Of course it is. The idea that is isn't is just used as an excuse to breed dogs with bad genetics. I've seen people using that as an excuse to breed epileptic dogs for crying out loud. Yes, I do believe the gene pool of GSD is big enough to toss out dogs with DM, HD, epilepsy, etc. As I said on the epilepsy thread: if it's not big enough to get those dogs out of the gene pool, the breed is dead, just let it die out. It's failed and can't create healthy dogs. 

you can continue that bloodline and with a lot of luck, a DM free dog out of the right combinations, if everything happens to be just right and falls into place.

Because luck in breeding always skews good, right? lol. The bigger problem is here is that people just don't care if the dog is DM free or not, because they are leaning on a faulty interpretation of science to justify their perpetuating the DM gene. So unless every single GSD breeder on the planet suddenly grows scruples, it's a lost cause. 

As I've said before, and I'll die on the hill over and over: the ONLY reason to breed a dog with a health problem, closely related to a dog with a health problem, or with a gene that might lead to a health problem in the dog or in future progeny, is greed. What's the point of testing for it if one just doesn't care and will find an excuse to breed the dog regardless? I can think of a breeder like that, hmmm.


Baerenfangs Erbe

by Baerenfangs Erbe on 28 September 2020 - 09:09

You are also talking to a very small group of people. I know a lot of breeders who do care and those are the ones that I tend to surround myself with personally. Not all breeders are like this. :)

by Rik on 28 September 2020 - 12:09

starting to get a little ridiculous. who are these breeders knowingly breeding for DM,
HD and epilepsy, etc. start naming them.

I don't know what circles you run in, but the breeders I know, thinking 2 or 3 generations down the line have been doing what is possible to not have serious issues of any kind. 100% avoidance is not possible.

if the DM test is accurate, then breeders can breed with 100% certainty that they are not producing dogs susceptible to DM. even if it's only money, it's still pretty easy to know hip scores and DM test and to take appropriate measures.

anyone thinking it is possible to breed perfect dogs is living in fantasy land.

jmo,
Rik





 


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