Putting Drives on top of a nerve base.: Breeders" views? - Page 8

Duke, I don't think your definition of outcrossing is the same as mine or others.

Outcrossing to me is outcrossing is truly outcrossing. Like working lines breeding into showlines. Or breeding West German into DDR. Into a bloodline where there is absolutely no linebreeding whatsoever. None, Zero all the way up to the 9th generation.

Duke - I realize that but with any line breeding an occasional outcross must be made then you can go back into your lines again.

I also believe that the only way to expose and eliminate unwanted traits is to line breed. Same can be said about exposing and continuing with desired traits.

Compared to the German working Dobe breeders, the GSD breeders do very little line breeding.

And what happened to the Dobe? They bred themselves into such a corner that they can't get out of it. I don't want the Shepherd to end up like the Dobe!

Just making a comparison between the level of line breeding of the working Dobes and the working GSDs. I think many GSD breeders tend to not understand line breeding and think of it as something bad.

correct Koots, BE cant disagree more

It's not bad so long it's done smart.

The Dobe is done and the Shepherd is heading the same way health wise. So you keep breeding your way, I'll keep breeding mine.

Everyone on this thread is claimimg expertise while at the same time calling out the decline of the GSD. Any one willing to throw out some names with peds of some actual good dog they have produced?

"It's not bad so long it's done smart. " This can be said about ANY breeding program.

I am not a breeder, never have been, just an enthusiast and student trying to learn.

Then I guess you haven't gone through the heartbreak of what inbreeding and super close linebreeding can bring, or what backmassing on certain dogs can do.

Where do you think all these issues are coming from? When there is only 20% diversity left you've got a problem.

Sure, you may get that one Super Dog, but what happens to the rest? And then, right around three years the autominue issues begin to pop up. I'm watching it with an Akita breeder friend of mine. She's bred herself into a serious corner and just about every dog coming out of her program is ending up with autoimmune issues once they turn three to five years old.

I'm not going down that route.

you need diversity in the breed, not in the individual dogs, loosing diversity is caused by everybody outcrossing to the same (famous ) dog

happened with workingline bouviers, where everybody ran to breed to Tomba van Assenrade, that decreased diversity in the breed by 80 % or more maybe

hard to find any workingline bouvier without Tomba in the pedigree today

a breed is served best when it has multiple unrelated lines available to be able to outcross to when needit, in order to maintain multiple unrelated lines the only way is to linebreed