GSD With White Shepherd Parents - Question For Mods - Page 5

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GSDGenetics

by GSDGenetics on 30 March 2017 - 23:03

The dog Regalwise Z'Inevitable Juel is sable though not black and tan.

This is absolutely true. I knew this dog personally and saw her as a young puppy. I've even got puppy pics of her and her littermates. She was definitely a sable.

Les The Kiwi Pauling

by Les The Kiwi Pauling on 02 April 2017 - 07:04

Mod edit, do not question moderator decisions in any forum if you have saomething you want to say about moderation do so in a PM.  You obviously did not understand my last warning PM but I am a man of my word. mrdarcy (mod)


[Sunsilver] 27.3.2017 - 14:03

 

"Les, if you read the rest of the thread, you'll see I corrected what I'd written - one of Manchi's parents was sable, the other white."
Sorry about that - I was directed to pg.3, so I read ONLY pg.3 plus flicked to the start of the thread to find who had asked its question and what that actual question was. From years in YahooAnswers I am well aware that few people in Y!A
(and other internet forums...) actually put their question FIRST, and then supply the details that give whatever evidence is available, plus explain why they asked their question.
I AM kept busy, you know - I was slowing down even before my leg was amputated


"So much for the accuracy of AKC pedigrees.... :("
Don't limit your scorn to the AKC. As a tribe, breeders are SHOCKINGLY careless. and all sorts of cross-breds got registered as pure-breds. Or the litter was registered as by the most famous stud when in actuality 3 dogs mated her. Or the listed stud was so old that the stud owner let the stud's keen young son do the mating but charged the old dog's stud fee. Liars and cheats WON'T be caught by KCs that don't require certified DNA from every pup & the alleged parents. I believe that when the SV first made DNA samples part of litter registration, they quickly suspended that rule for a while because they had found so many pups who were NOT sired by the alleged stud.

 

 

"Edit: okay, Les, I saw one of those pics at the top of the page, here, and it is NOT Manchi:"

Google's Search algorithms are NOT reliable. The Search results I found listed all sorts of combinations of words in the names of Manchi or whoever I used as my Search seed - and because Internet users are such LOUSY spellers Google also clutters the result up with hundreds or thousands of "almost the same spelling" results. On the first page of results there were 4 images - 2 sables, 2 tan-points, but all GSDs or GSD crosses. I knew they couldn't ALL be Manchi, just merely passed the resukt on for those who DO recognise Manchi.



[Les The Kiwi Pauling] 27.3.2017 - 11:03

Re [Reliya] - 27.3.2017 - 09:03
"I think I am incorrect about solid brindles existing. Sorry."

 

Mod edit, completely off topic and questioning moderators decisions again. mrdarcy (mod)

 

 

 

 

[GSDHeritage (admin)] 27.3.2017 - 17:03

"Les, This GSD is AKC Registered white how would you define this dogs color?
White Stone's Afro Man  
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=1295369-white-stones-afro-man  "
WHAT "
GSD" ?
There is nothing in that photo that the SV. the NZKC, the ANKC would accept for registration as a GSD. Nor would the other members of the FCI - WE all operate by the SV & WUSV & VDH-approved International Standard of the GSD
(which IS a German breed - not a British or Canadian or USA breed, and so the German organisation has the "rights" on what the breed's STANDARD stipulates. And so FCI#166 is the "blueprint" of the GSD:   http://www.fci.be/Nomenclature/Standards/166g01-en.pdf   )
#1 Afro's first elimination is that white is banned except for inconspicuous amounts result from too-slow pigment-cell migration while in-utero. See   Eliminating faults  j)
#2 I also suspect that his chest-depth is outside the stipulated 45% to 48% of the height at the withers.
#
3 I also suspect that his length:height ratio is longer than the stipulated "
The trunk length exceeds the dimension at the height at the withers by about 10 – 17 %."

Were he registered as a Berger Blanc Suisse
(   http://www.fci.be/Nomenclature/Standards/347g01-en.pdf   ), I suspect that FCI#347's
"SEVERE FAULTS · Distinct fawn colour (distinct yellowish or tawny overlay) on ear tips, back and upper side of the tail."
would keep him off the pegs at any show with a decent number of entries.

That he's listed as an IABCA & UKC Ch. might help you realise why none of the world's OFFICIAL
(= 1 kc per nation) kennel clubs will accept the pedigrees, titles, training qualifications of either organisation, just as they won't accept them from the Con.KC.

Whether he is a self-white with extensive "badger bleed-through", or an 
e^ e^  self-tan with EXTREME colour-paling, is of no interest to me. he is NOT a GSD that matches the Standard of the GSD. Although my wife had to extensively quiz well-known breeders of such as Corgis, Great Danes, Old English Sheep Dogs, Pugs, Rough Collies to get her Judge's Licence, she NEVER thought any of the other breeds was a GSD! Our mentors for GSDs were the 2 families who between them, won NZ's equivalent of Crufts and Westminster in 1968, '69, '70, '71 and 1974. The 1974 winner was the stud who was SUPPOSED to be the sire of some brindle pups whelped by a bitch we'd sold - but a visit showed that the farm Collie had to be the actual sire.

But if you merely wanted my term for the COLOURATION of White Stone's Afro Man, I've already given it - on that aspect he is identical to the Windstrom's Saruman von Finn that you linked us to on pg,3.
I stated that he has so much "bleed-through" that I suspect that he is an 
e^ e^  of the sort that used to be associated with Avon Prince of Alumvale
(the Brits used to call them "blondes") but with his tan paled right out. I don't think Avon Prince ever sired a self-white himself, unless from one of his descendants - but inbreeding on him via his descendants sure did.


[GSDHeritage (admin)] 27.3.2017 - 20:03

"Knowing breeders of both White Shepherds and white GSDs was told the various opinions and facts on them."
Please get INTERNATIONAL. There is not one internationally accepted kc that has a registry for "
White Shepherds". Nor do FCI member clubs register GSDs as "white" - probably only The KC (UK), AKC and Can.KC still accept white for GSDs.

Whichever incorrect breed-name an owner or breeder uses, that person would have been better to stick with the AKC instead of going to the UKC - because of the "rivalry", I doubt that the AKC will accept the Berger Blanc Suisse (the correct name for the breed ever since Swiss fanciers persuaded the SCS to, as of June 1991, re-register as BBSs those GSDs in  Switzerland with enough generations of ONLY registered-as-white GSDs in the pedigree) while the UKC exists. But that's not my concern - my attraction is to wolf-sables and tan-points. Self-blacks and self-whites both lack the facial markings to produce the "expression" I crave.






 


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