written health guarantees - Page 1

A few questions for the breeders on this list. 1. Do you give written guarantees with every puppy you sell? 2. What do you guarantee for a breeding/show/working prospect? Do you require the dog is neutered, put down, returned before you honor your contract? Do you replace the puppy or allow a discount on another? 3. What about a pet? 4. What sort of health clearances do you require on your dogs prior to making a breeding - hips, elbows, eyes, thyroid, etc. 5. What do you think is a fair price for a quality 8 week old out of titled and V rated parents? Let's say the pick of the litter. A range in price would be sufficient. 6. Are you breeding from imported lines from Europe (or elsewhere out of the US) or domestic dogs? If domestic, are they 100% imported lines, 100% American AKC lines, a combo of both. If imported, are they showlines, working lines or a combo of both? Thanks.

No one gives written contracts with their puppy sales?

The BB was not accessible for a short period of time (either that or my PC acted up) which may be reason for why no one has replied as of yet but Guarantees in general are quiet a touchy subject! Out of curiosity, what type of Guarantee would you yourself ‘want’ as a Buyer, what would you be willing to pay for such a Guarantee? and What type of Guarantee would you yourself ‘give’ as a Breeder?

When I breed a litter, not GSD, an AKC working breed, all the puppies I sell go with a written guarantee. One for show/breeding, a different one for a pet. All are guaranteed to be in good health, free of any communicable diseases for a period of 2 weeks after the date of sale. They must be checked by a vet within 3 working days of purchase. Show puppies ae guaranteed to be eligible for an OFA number at 24 months of age and to pass their CERF exams and that they will not exhibit or produce breed specific diseases. They are also guaranteed against any disqualifying faults. Pet puppies are guaranteed to be able to function as a satisfactory pet (hips) as an adult and to not exhibit certain breed specific diseases. Other health issues are addressed case-by-case, I don't think it's really possible to cover everything. Years ago I partially refunded on an 8 year old that developed epilepsy. I had never seen that before in any of my dogs. When his seizures could no longer be controlled with meds, he was put down. I felt I should help them locate and help pay for a replacement. There are caveats regarding what needs to be done to a get replacement or a full refund - dog must be neutered, euthanised, returned as agreed upon by all involved parties. If the hips are bad, I'd ask for a copy of the OFA or radiologist report. I would pretty much expect the same from a GSD breeder. Considering the prices asked for most GSD puppies, I think that would be a reasonable expectation.

Forget to address what I would be willing to pay for a guarantee. If you mean would I pay an addition fee for a contract, no way. I would expect the original price of the puppy to include health guarantees, etc. I was told by a GSD breeder, I think he might even be on this list, that for $800 I was nuts to think that he would give me any sort of guarantee on a pet working line male. I didn't buy the dog.

Hi Blitzen, Having purchased two GSD's who developed major health problems at 1.5 years old, I appreciate you refunding some money on the epileptic dog. My first GSD Dacotah (an American GSD) developed epilepsy at 1.5 years old. I immediately contacted the breeder, who told me she knew there was a possibility of epilepsy, but still bred the dogs anyway. Great, thanks :( So 9 years later, he's still doing OK and the medication is semi-controlling his seizures (he has clusters every 6-8 weeks). This breeder did not offer anything, but I only paid $600 for the dog. Then I purchased a dog from Vom Waldenhaus Shepherds in MO last year for $3,000. Big mistake. I have learned my lesson. I was impressed with their website and thought they bred healthy, quality animals. This dog (whom I named Nikolaus) develops Osteosarcoma in his rear hind leg at 1.5 years old. I contacted the breeder, who refused to call or email me back. I had his leg amputated ($2,100) to save his life, now two months later the cancer has spread to his lungs, and he's got a couple days left to live. If I were this breeder I would feel horrified and give my customer another puppy. What did I get? for over $5,000 I got a dog who's going to die before his 2nd birthday. I took Nik to two different vets who were horrified at his cancer, apparently Osteosarcoma is rare in young dogs. I hope to God that my new pup, who I purchased from a breeder located close to me in Southern CA, remains healthy.

So sorry about your dogs. 1 1/2 years is VERY young to develop osteosarcoma. What a heartbreaker. Why anyone would make a breeding knowing there was an above average risk of producing epilepsy is beyond my understanding. I don't think that the price paid for any dog should dictate whether or not there is a written contract. Anytime a breeder offers a dog for sale (as a pet or as show/breeding), he or she is in essence saying, or should be saying, - I believe this is to be a healthy breeding or I would not have done it. If they can't say that, then they have no business breeding dogs. IMO, all puppies should have a written guarantee. I will concede that any such guarantee is only as good as the person issuing it, but it is a start and a good indicator of the breeder's ethics. I've too have had experience with a breeder who refused to respond to any of my contacts regarding one of his puppies with multiple serious health issues. He lived to be only 7 1/2 and was sick most of his life. This was not a BYB. I truly feel for you and hope your next puppy is a healthy one.

Hello VKH, I'm curious why the topic of written contracts is a touchy subject. Thanks.

I've been to Vom Waldenhaus Kennels and they are one step above deplorable. They won't even answer your email unless you attach a credit card number with it. Here is their contract http://globalcorp.com/gsd/guartee.htm Sorry they couldn't see it in their selfish hearts to give you another pup. Maybe god is helping you and everyone else they've screwed as I understand the old man is ill with some disease that will leave him horribly ill or dead. This kennel has a bad reputation in Missouri, most say they are part of the "Missouri" puppy mill scheme. Mel SW Illinois

Wow, thanks Melody for your post. The other GSD messageboard that I'm on won't allow posts regarding specific breeders, I just wanted to voice my opinion of how I've been treated by Vom Waldenhaus, especially after paying $3,000 for a puppy. I love this dog with all my heart, and I've watched this cancer eat him alive over the past two weeks. To not even receive an "I'm sorry about your dog" from Vom Waldenhaus is disgusting. All they care about is the money, obviously. Tom Forrest was ill and supposedly dying in April 2003 when I got Nik. His wife and I exchanged some words over email regarding the final payment on Nik before she would ship him, she was very nasty. That should have been a warning sign right there....... My guarantee was 1 year against death due to congenital disease, and I don't think cancer can be considered congenital. He obviously had the cancer before April 2004, but didn't start showing signs until June 2004 (limping on rear leg). I'm sure even if I contacted her in April she would have not honored her guarantee and shipped me another pup. Not that I would want another one of her high quality pups, how the hell did my dog get bone cancer at 18 months old???? Now she's breeding Nik's brother (Boris Vom Waldenhaus). Glad to know her dog is alive and mine is dead....... This has just been very, very upsetting :( If I lived closer I would pay her a visit.