In Breeding Puppies - Page 2

Thanks Mike Russell, To large degree your point is well made --- but would be more so were this a perfect world. Aren't majority of Breeders aiming at producing the 'perfect' Show conformation --- if not the profits to be made from that ultimate Show 'winner'?

Most dog breeders are well aware of potential pitfalls associated with inbreeding although it is tempting for a novice to continue to use one or two closely related lines in order to preserve or improve type. Breeding to an unrelated line of the same breed (where possible) or outcrossing to another breed (where permissible) can ensure vigor. Despite the risk of importing a few undesirable traits which may take a while to breed out, outcrossing can prevent a breed from stagnating by introducing fresh genes into the gene pool. It is important to outcross to a variety of different dogs, considered to be genetically "sound" (do any of their previous offspring exhibit undesirable traits?) and preferably not closely related to each other. How can you tell if a breed or line is becoming too closely inbred? One sign is that of reduced fertility in either males or females. Male dogs are known to have a low fertility rate. Small litter sizes and high puppy mortality on a regular basis indicates that the dogs may be becoming too closely related. The loss of a large proportion of dogs to one disease indicates that the dogs are losing/have lost immune system diversity. If 50% of individuals in a breeding program die of a simple infection, there is cause for concern. Highly inbred dogs also display abnormalities on a regular basis as "bad" genes become more widespread. These abnormalities can be simple undesirable characteristics such as misaligned jaws (poor bite) or more serious deformities. Sometimes a fault can be traced to a single male or female which should be removed from the breeding program even if it does exhibit exceptional type. If its previous progeny are already breeding it's tempting to think "Pandora's Box is already open and the damage done so I'll turn a blind eye". Ignoring the fault and continuing to breed from the dog will cause the faulty genes to become even more widespread in the breed, causing problems later on if its descendants are bred together.

Very well put again Kennyr: we should all applaud your efforts here. The only trouble I again have with your comments is that few Breeders seem to observe your common-sense advice! Instead, we mostly have an ongoing rush to mate with the most successful stud dog (or latest import) --- largely without any regard to bloodlines whatsoever. Isn't this the reality? Of course, outcrossing also means unpredictability in outcome, again something few Breeders wish to risk. And, I've already noted how major Show bloodlines are already closely related in that that mosly have same origins. Thus, how do you outcross to any real degree without seriously harming wished-for 'type'?

mike russell -- as good comentary !! i have talked with a number of breeders .. not just genotypic expression is important but also phenotypic -- aside from the structure , color . type wetc that so many showlines are reaching for the stars for ... in these show lines as most people are aware : behavioral traits have been lost , sacrificed or just toatalluy eliminated that defines the GSD [ and also ditto for other breeds too ]-- yes my personal , biased opinion .. and i stress not with intention to be agrgumentative with anyone , but a opinion based in knowledge... you are absolutely correct an outcrossing from show to working line is direly needed i think for the betterment of the gsd -- without intention of boasting but5 only to exemplify to others .. i have a cross working line/show line ,male GSD .. handsome nice black and dark tan .. conformation at leasr SG BUT at 10 months old he was with confinedce , no stress exceeding police acadamy training .. he was already on full bite suite with a frontal /face attack and protecting me in an secort with 3 times automatis apprehnsion of agitator on escape -- also caould be sent 25 yars and upon bite outed and recalled with one whistle blow -- took stick hits [ with kindness of course ] , would jump off porches , jump over fences for bite .. but more importantly has perfect obedience , long long down with handler out of sight , food refusal with strangers .. i could go on but the point .. genetic diversification .. now maybe he is not as pretty nor structured like my yasko farbenspiel son . my odin tannenmiese grandson , my jeck noricum / lasso neuemberg grandson , but gee at 10 months is he a reperesentation of what a GSD shpould be as described by the stadard requiring not only physical but behavioral deinitions .. you betcha GSD . keenyr again a well vwersed reply -- great description for others .. your comments are knowlegable , sensable , informative . novices [ and maybe some longtime professional breeders] just don't realize the need for outcrossings and what they contribute to a viable breeding program !! i try to discuss this with others but i think i offend them ... thankyou kennyr and mike russel for highlighting /expressing your prudent ideas for others

Respected Friends, I'm humbled by your replies.. My basic question howevern is in laymans terms stemming from the fact that I plan to buy a inbred ( Half Brother Half sister litter ) Male working GSD. Simply asking should I go for it??? regards vikram

Dear Kennyr I'm planning to won my first GSD. Should I go in for an Inbred ( Half Brother Half Sister ) inbred on WUSV Champion Third place Working Male GSD pup?? thanks very much Vikram

In Laymans terms Vikram, You need to look closely at the lines that the in breeding is coming out of. Look into hip ZW's and any other information about faults that you can find. Also look into how these lines perform work, whether it be Schutzhund or SAR or police work. Look at progeny of the lines and take visual note of what is produced. You may want to post again and let folks know what lines we are talking about inbreeding. Some people on this board may know what the faults are and even if it has been tried before and what the results good/bad were. But when it comes down to it. No one can tell you what to buy and not to buy. YOU have to decide what you are wanting out of the dog and if the bloodlines have it and if the inbreeding will enhance the chances of you getting more of what you are looking for. Make sence? Good luck! Debby

Vikram,Why this pup?What are your plans for it?To many good breedings out there to be stuck on one.Its obvious you dont feel comfortable about it so why not re-think the issue.Look around,find something,bring it to the board,ask for feedback,many people on here that would be glad to help you in your search for that perfect GSD! GOOD LUCK!

Vikram --- i would ask you to contemplate : with all the most wonderful working line dogs from many countries belgium , germany , france , czech , holland etc etc.. why would one consider an inbreeding ..[ only one purpose for inbreeding .. to check your genetics /breeding stock ] perhaps they should just remain with theat breeder . ???? maybe ??? there are miliions of working GSD's to adopt/purchase ... please if you may , read but better yet contemplate and study the words that others [ keeny r for example] has just shared .. i have ahd GSD's my whole life .... if i might be permitted to share my opinion --- move on . resaerch , talk with many others and find yourself a well bred GSD , working line if you prefer .. best of luck to you

Vikram, Simply put? NO..........