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by Swarnendu on 30 August 2016 - 20:08

Susie said- "Just stay away from the German language..."

Susie said- "On the other hand most pet dogs are NOT fit to be a GSD, ever thought about this statement?"

Les said: "Possibly it has something to do with my parents & grandparents valuing education more than did the parents & grandparents of "the rest of the people on this forum"?"

Susie said - "At this point you are out for me, sorry. Go on giving your "English lessons" on this board ( you hate this word ? ), but stop to insult people."

TOTALLY AGREE WITH SUSIE'S COMMENTS!!!

The points raised by her are the ONLY faults one could find in Les's
4 posts (or should we call them Pillars!) & a teaser !

Les The Kiwi Pauling

by Les The Kiwi Pauling on 31 August 2016 - 09:08

"Les: "BTW - if a GSD isn't fit to be a "pet dog" it is NOT fit to be a GSD."
On the other hand most pet dogs are NOT fit to be a GSD, ever thought about this statement?
"
VERY much so - and not just because too many people persist in "excusing" as "SL" or "WL" instead of demanding that what they are talking about be genuine GSDs. I am concerned about all the pooches REGISTERED aS "GSD"s in many parts of thgre worlkd, misleading possibke newcomers as to what GSDs RERALKLY are.

In my case it began in pre-computer 1972 when the breeder of my Jena (my obedience bitch) and Rella (our foundation brood)   http://lesp90.wixsite.com/lorelei-gsd-kennels     (the LSH Mitzi had Jena's sire and Rella's sire's dam - NZs first 2 SV Gold medallists, under "your" Philip Hutter) returned from Europe and showed me photos of    http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=207-heiko-von-oranien-nassau   (make sure you scroll to "my" Picture Gallery).
He was so DIFFERENT to the l-o-n-g AlsatiOns and DEEP-bodied short fore-armed Prick-Eared Bassets that judges were promoting that I was forced to explore the few Standards available in books and eventually decide that "Deutsche Schäferhund is right, AlsatiOn-etc is WRONG".
 




"You are not able to acknowledge different definitions within one language, different meanings for one word? You don´t know ( or better, accept ) the commonly used terms within international dog sport?"
But acknowledging and knowing is not the same as ACCEPTING major deviations as being the same thing as the original. I don't accept that a "Prick-Eared Basset" is a GSD. There are many titles
(such as "professor" and "WT.Ch.") that require the person or pooch to have first EARNED particular qualifications, but qualification does NOT equal title.

" - it´s about feeling, and knowing out of experience and doing."
So you are happy for so-called breeders who "
feel" that the stud they "like" is best for the bitch they "like" and so mate them together without bothering to examine the hip-categories/scores of the progeny of the 2 pooches' parents and siblings and grandparents and great-uncles & great-aunts? The SV's ZW does that "risk examination" - but is weakened by so many of the relatives included having no scores, just categories "assumed/invented" by the computer. And I imagine you are well aware of how German breeders go about making sure that certain progeny of beloved studs get "screened out" before any of the SV's official radiographers can take official xrays and submit them to whoever has replaced Professor Brass.
Although OFA has the merit of being the only USA scheme to display the x-ray results on-line, it NEGATES that by allowing owners of the fails to NOT have their pooch's Fail displayed. Until DNA testing is available, the
FAILS are the best evidence there is for how many of the damaging recessive both parents possess.
But that is not on-topic for a "
title" thread

"
Life goes on, it didn´t end in the eighties, and it really doesn´t matter if you like it or not."
It MATTERS to people who want clarity or who want life to last into and beyond their eighties.
For Germans concerned about HD, it's just as well that life didn't "
end in the eighties" - the ZWs
(which to me are the only things that saved the 'a'-stamps from deserved oblivion - a claim that is also off topic for this thread, but I do have evidence for it) weren't in action until 1998.
 

Edited by GSDHeritage ADMIN

 


susie

by susie on 31 August 2016 - 19:08

Your "quote" of my post:

● " - it´s about feeling, and knowing out of experience and doing."

Les: "So you are happy for so-called breeders who "feel" that the stud they "like" is best for the bitch they "like" and so mate them together without bothering to examine the hip-categories/scores of the progeny of the 2 pooches' parents and siblings and grandparents and great-uncles & great-aunts?"

This was the whole content of the small part you copied/pasted:

Susie: "A lot of very good ( better, outstanding ) trainers and breeders of German Shepherd Dogs are no "well educated" people, but they know more about working dogs than a lot of academically well educated people will ever know. Breeding, training, titling working dogs is not about spelling, not about grammar - it´s about feeling, and knowing out of experience and doing."

Only for clarification: These trainers and breeders I mentioned do have the ability to SEE and TRAIN a lot of dogs during their life. They KNOW about health problems of any ancestors, siblings, and offspring, they KNOW about working abilities, character, and temperament of said dogs, they KNOW about conformation, and they KNOW about the outcome of similar breedings made before.

But more importantly - out of personal experience they KNOW that not every Marko Cellerland offspring is breedworthy, simply because not all of the offspring inherited their sire´s temperament and character ( and now think about all of the following, untested generations...).

They KNOW they have to test their dogs, because they know that not every offspring out of any famous sire or dam is breedworthy. An "interesting" pedigree doesn´t automatically produce "interesting" offspring...

For me it´s not important, if these "outstanding" trainers and breeders believe in show lines, working lines, or anything else. In my country the breeding stock needs a show rating , a working title, and a breed  survey. A good (outstanding) breeder will have good results because of "feeling, and knowing out of experience and doing." - not because of spelling or grammar ( even education is not important ).

They may never become one of the "internationally famous" breeders or trainers, simply because they don´t speak English fluently, and they don´t know how to behave in the "dog circuit", how to make friends, how to make small talk, simply not knowing how to sell best, but their dogs speak for themselves, at least in my country.

On the other hand you are talking about NZ breed surveys ( temperament tests ), imported dogs ( sons or daughters of XYZ ...), V ratings without working titles ( only for you: "qualifications" ), X generations ( ! ) of dogs bred without any proof of working ability, most probably pets.

It doesn´t help the breed by simply breeding according to the FCI standard #166, as long as you don´t test your breeding stock according to the initial character of said working dog breed, too.
Sooner or later the result will be nice looking pets.

It doesn´t matter if you call it "qualification", or if you call it "title", it doesn´t matter if you test within IPO, Mondio, or within a new "NZ trial creation" ( there are more sheep in NZ than in whole Europe; why are even "we" able to host herding dog trials, but you are not able to ask at least for them? ), it only matters if you are willing to do it, not spelling, not grammar.

You don´t need to, so you don´t? - We are forced to, so we do...

The result: Countries like yours ( a lot of countries outside of Europe ) will go on and on to import "European working dogs", simply because your own ( already imported ) breeding stock looses the character all of us are looking for in a German Shepherd Dog.

Go on, my landsmen don´t mind...but don´t try to educate us about the "standard", or worse, the definitions of any "working titles".

 






 


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