Bitework Question: How should trainer progress. - Page 24

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by joanro on 30 June 2016 - 21:06

Naw. You got the 'allegiance' thing all wrong. Koots is saying what koots means, no clique involved.

BTW, one of my progeny competed at the pnw regionals last week with a first time gsd owner and IPO handler.
Congratulations Bill and Quannah !!

by Swarnendu on 30 June 2016 - 21:06

Mithuna- "please don't ruin the thread with personal stuff."

Ditto that.And advertisements also.


Koots

by Koots on 30 June 2016 - 21:06

BW - you are really grasping. I see no relevance to the "allegiance" you claim I have, and my request for you to clarify the statement YOU made. So, if a person was to "see you guys on the field at a large competition", which competition are you talking about and will a person see you on field or in the stands?   If a person would like to say hello and introduce themselves, how is one to know who to look for?


by joanro on 30 June 2016 - 21:06

Not advertising, nothing to sell, the dog is over four years old, pnw regionals was mentioned and so was the origin of a poster's dog...

This thred has been off topic more than on, BTW. How many pages disparaging the op, how many pages rehashing the tan point factor called 'reverse mask'? That's just to mention two of the many pages of off topic subjects....none have anything to do with title of the thred.


mrdarcy (admin)

by mrdarcy on 30 June 2016 - 21:06

Can't actually remember the thread being on topic, lol, remind me what is the topic?? lol,lol.

Koots

by Koots on 30 June 2016 - 21:06

I think all relevant advice on the topic has been dispensed already, so what more can be said about it?

mrdarcy (admin)

by mrdarcy on 30 June 2016 - 21:06

Totally agree.

GSDfan

by GSDfan on 30 June 2016 - 22:06

Yes all relevent advise has been dispensed...looks like people are just "chatting" while we wait for the OP's video lol

Sunsilver

by Sunsilver on 30 June 2016 - 23:06

BTW, the breeder I supposedly worship ( Carmen of Carmspack kennel) is someone I know mostly by the reputation of her dogs. I finally got to meet her in person this spring, and was impressed by the depth of her knowledge of the breed.

But I haven't indulged in hero worship since I was in my teens, so, sorry to disappoint you, B.W. I'm not part of her 'clique'.

Prager

by Prager on 01 July 2016 - 04:07

Susie: Prager, during the years I read about Jiri Novotny whatever I was able to find ( impressive agenda! ), but why do you always say he "created" z Ps ? The kennel was "created" in the mid fifties, J. Novotny started to work there at the end of 1979 ( 24 year later ), and started to direct (?) the kennel in October 1981, until he quit in 2001. That said, he heavily "influenced" the breedings for 20 years ( that´s a very long time in breeding ), but he didn´t "create" z Ps in my understanding.

 

Prager Hans :

First of all I have never said that Jiri "created" z Pohranicni straze kennel or breeding as whole. 

Do you even know what z Pohranicni straze zPs means? It means from border patrol. Which is the name of the government breeding program,. I have never said that that he was at the inception of this name nor at the inception of the breeding program which was started at the year 1955 same year Jiri was born. During the history of the dogs in that program,  there were many people in charge which in haphazard or dreamer like way projected  their image of what they thought border patrol dog should be .  Non of these dopgs are in the z POhranicni straze lines as we know them today. Those curent lines were solely created by Jiri Novotny. The times  prior to Jiri Novotny  included totally failed program of breeding wolf hybrids which eventually turned to be even now present breed called Czechoslovakian wolfdog or Československý vlčák or CV which is totally useless failure of dog as  a working dog in just about any serious working capacity. That program was installed by Karel Hartl, Jiri Novotny's predecessor. After Karel Hartl left Jiri was put in charge and  the CV program  was totally abolished and Jiri started with clen slate from the scratch which had very little to do to nothing to do with the dogs from past z Ps programs  Jiri was in charge of the z Ps  breeding program  since October 10 1981 and developed amazing and complex testing and measuring system of dogs which eventually involved thousands of dogs and which were started with GSDs of Czech ( females) and were based on less then 10 DDR imports.  Those dogs were mainly :

Troy Schaferstoltz

Viktor Ederquelle 

Bojar Schotterhof

and then 

Iwo v. Buschcke 

Whisky v Ritterberg

Bero v Friedesdofer Flur 

Gomo v  Schiefirschloss

The breeding was based on breeding these dogs, the testing in performance in different ages and then breeding  testing of hundreds of dogs every year to see which stud produced what with what females from what lines.  He was also heavily relying  on breeding in all 2nd,3rd,4th and 5th male line. Here is an example of how his scoring system looked like on paper on to bottom line you can for example see the dimensions of head, wrist , circumference of chest, circumference of the wrist,  length of the dog ...and so on. : 

An image

 

 

He then continued this program until April30 2001. During this 20 years of hard and really THE 1st serious breeding program conducted by Czech Government in Czechoslovakian border patrol work he generated dogs which made z Pohranicni straze dogs legendary. Thus when I am referring to z Pohranicni straze lines  or dogs  I am not referring to failed or haphazard attempts for breeding working dogs from 1955 - 1980 which are now totally gone. . I am  only referring to dogs   as we know them today which were created by Jiri Novotny.   Thus even though there was z Pohranaicni straze  breeding dogs all those attempts were basically 100% failure especially the  CV program which was direct   predecessor of Jiri's work and has 100% - zero to do which the dogs of today created by Jiri Novotnty  and   carry no influence what  so oever  on  Jiri Novotny's program of z Ps dogs as we know them today.  That is why I am not saying as you are in error suggesting that he "heavily influenced" creation of these dogs but I am  saying  that he created z Ps dogs   as we know them today. 

 I hope this will help you to understand the dynamics of the z Ps breeding  program.  






 


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