German Shepherd Dog > do you think working lines mature slower than showlines? (24 replies)
do you think working lines mature slower than showlines?
by destiny4u on 20 July 2012 - 21:30
|LIke belgian west german working lines mature slower than american or german show lines?|
by OGBS on 20 July 2012 - 22:11
|Usually the DDR and Czech working lines are slower to mature than the WG working lines.|
I have seen a great deal of WG showlines that are quick to mature and also quick to wash out.
I don't have enough experience with the Belgian working line GSD's, or, the American showlines to comment.
by brynjulf on 20 July 2012 - 22:22
|I agree with OGBS I also find that Czech breeding mature slower. Males much moreso than the females.|
by EuroShepherd on 20 July 2012 - 23:17
Male dogs mature slower than females, some take 3-4 yrs to mature. One of my dad's dogs is 3 yrs old and I'm still waiting for him to look mature (and he's not working lines.)
One of my friends has several half czech, half belgian working line dogs and I noticed that those dogs did seem to mature slower than his pure czech working and pure german working line dogs.
by swingfield on 20 July 2012 - 23:24
|I actually had the reverse question! I have a working (west/east) male that is maturing very quickly..(90 lbs @ 11 months) and a west german showline female that is only 50 lbs and tiny at 9 months old!! I was thinking the opposite !! :)|
by destiny4u on 20 July 2012 - 23:53
|my 2 and half czech belgian west german mix with lots of zidane blood in her looks still puppyish and acts it a lot also i wonder when she will mature shes really good in her protection but still so chlidish in other things. I know about pure czech lines maturing slow. But i wonder if the belgian and west german must often mature really slow also compared to typical showlines. There is no way shes an adult.|
Euroshepherd i wonder if me and your friend have the same dog almost lol
ANy reason why the czech belgian/wg mix might mature super slow?
by beetree on 20 July 2012 - 23:56
|swingfield: Agreed! I always thought our resident Czech expert has mentioned his czech bred dogs were supposedly the earliest of maturerers. One reason PD's like 'em. And my own experience says the SL's are on the slower side of maturity.|
by Chaz Reinhold on 21 July 2012 - 00:05
|Depends on your latitude, sunlight, and gravity. Oh, and if you have Cinemax, they'll definitely mature faster. All lines inside of lines are different. I've seen CZ/DDR dogs mature quickly, and they're supposed to be the slowest.|
by swingfield on 21 July 2012 - 00:21
|@ Chaz !! and make them wear tin foil hats helps too.. the lines cant be sucked out very fast and they dont lose anymore brain waves!! ((What)) ??|
by OGBS on 21 July 2012 - 05:05
Usually when one talks about maturity in a dog they mean mental maturity, not, physical.
If your dog is 90lbs at 11 months it is either overweight (guessing not) or way oversized.
Oversized is common with East German lines.
Either way I would be careful with the dog.
That is a lot of weight for a body structure (meaning it's bones, especially legs, hips, and elbows) to be carrying at that age.
by GSDPACK on 21 July 2012 - 15:13
|I turned to solar power, seems to help in maturing slower, steady, and healthy.|
by inc on 21 July 2012 - 16:54
When you say "Maturing" what do you exactly mean. What characters do you observe ? I guess that body/structure gets better and the dog stops kind of being childish.
I have a 23 month West German Showline and a son of VA5 Schicco and he is very friendly with everybody and playful. He thinks everyone is a friend and I dont like it. Atleast I want him to bark at a stranger when some one knocks on the door or goes near the fence but he whines at people to come near and play. Is this something normal or what ?
One way its a good thing that I have less liability and on the other hand what is the purpose of having a dog if he wants to play with everyone.
by Prager on 21 July 2012 - 18:04
| Czech "z Pohranicni straze" dogs who were working as a border patrol dogs were specifically bred for long serviceability. Early maturity and performance until up to 10 years of age. Z PS dogs were on training active duty (perform all the tasks as patrol dogs except were not fully used in actual apprehensions) at 10 mo - 12 mo months. That included 25 km ( 15+ miles) patrol every day and so on. That is by today standard early. By the time they were 2 years old they must all be mature enough to be able to be in full active duty. Some were much younger then that.|
Sadly most German and GSD in general and that includes some Czech dogs these days can not be in full LE duty until they are around 2.5- 3.5 (!) years old and retired at 6 years(!) or earlier(!!!). We like fast maturing dogs and are still considering this when we breed dogs. Working dog should mature fast so that he can work long. Slow maturing working dogs are result of poor breeding and it is unnatural. Fast maturing is natural tait and GSD is a natural dog same a swolf. In a wolf , in nature, fast amturing is a matter of survival .
Some justify slow maturing by saying that it enables the dog to learn longer. That is silly statement. Learning ability in a good dog will last well into maturity and should not be related to a great degree to it (to maturity).
Slow maturing is inadvertently promoted by breeders who like dogs to be puppyish for long time. That is OK for toy breeds but not for working breeds.
On the other end of the spectrum, early retirement of some lines ( 6 years and such) is a result of sport breeding where the sport dog needs to perform at 3-5 years and then is retired and subsequently nobody cares about such dogs early or late retirement. Really it is sad.
Breeder of working dogs should keep this on his/her mind for the sake of a GSD as a working dog.
by Prager on 21 July 2012 - 18:32
|The length of serviceability is directly related to the health and to the length of the life of the dog. |
by Prager on 21 July 2012 - 18:35
| Do not mistake fast maturity for slow growing in early age. Slow growing is good and is important for proper hips / bones/ joint development. |
by swingfield on 21 July 2012 - 20:55
|OGBS .. yes he is not fat by any means!!! He is the one on my profile and I am very aware of his body weight and conformation and diet in regards to his growth spurts.. he is now 11 months old.. extremely sharp and aware.. very mature for his age.. has a wide range of commands.. (ie: go get some water, platz, foos, go potty, speak, watch em,) and just generally reads my mind! Very intelligent.. Long in body , has some good bone.. 2 prelims on xrays show good to possibly excellent.. very good seat in the sockets.. While the whiney little show line female is small frame and bone, goofy .. ADHD .. has no prey drive.. just play drive and that is with some effort.. very well bred.. just a clown! that was my reply to the OP .. that I had the opposite !! I wish it were the opposite at times.. my boy is neutered and my personal protection dog..( in training) West dad and an East/West working mom.. good minded protection/psa dogs.. not the conformation ring.. and he did turn out the largest of the whole litter.. not what I was hoping for.. but keeping in mind on not being too hard on him in jumping and such!!I was so much happier with the first East german female that I imported back in 1990! a gorgerous black sable ,,she threw awesome hips and minds.. and I cant seem to find that kind of breeding anymore !!|
by destiny4u on 21 July 2012 - 21:48
|my dog is a beast in the house and by her fence but friendly in public around strangers unless i give her ON command. Shes just childish in other ways specially around dogs she acts like a puppy but maybe because she was also never sococialzed with them much till now.|
INC your dog should not be that way that is really wierd.
by beetree on 21 July 2012 - 22:16
|INC. I wouldn't be overly concerned. Chances are your dog is balanced and the people they have met are not threatening. I do think your dog can become more territiorial with increased age. That will up the suspicion response, IMHO. Don't fret it, enjoy your good dog.|
by VonIsengard on 21 July 2012 - 22:54
|I've actually found showlines, especially males, to be very late to mature.|
by inc on 22 July 2012 - 00:29
|Thank you. I too heard that it may take about 3 years of age before he becomes suspecious and territorial.|