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Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 13 November 2018 - 08:11

Jesse, Dexter drinks plenty but not excessively. My last dog, the elderly l/c bitch (also kibble fed), drank LOADS, especially for her quite small frame, so I had to keep refilling her water bowl a couple of extra times per day. Thus proving, again, I think, that they are all different !
I too have always wet kibble a little bit - I use boiling water poured across it as it kills any storage mites etc that may have got in there, as well as starting off the expansion process before it hits their stomach. I then let it cool, add about a 1/3 can of tripe mix (or a portion of raw green when I have it), before serving the meal, twice per day. I have been doing this for literally decades, with varying numbers of diners, and occasional excursions into feeding other ways / foods. I have always come back to the way I do it now, because nothing I have tried over the years has proved easier to serve and store, or produced consistently healthy and satisfied dogs. I have never been impressed with the claim that all raw or BARF fed dogs are so much healthier, energetic, and shinier-looking than the kibble eating dogs I've had around me, because whenever I have met any they all seem about the same, to me. I am not saying there is anything wrong with raw feeding, I don't assume it will make any dog I feed sick either ; and if people want to do it, I would never discourage them. But my own personal experience, I honestly don't think it makes as much difference as gets claimed for it.

by ZweiGSD on 13 November 2018 - 14:11

Dogs eating raw will drink less water from a bowl as they are getting more moisture from their food. I just grabbed two random analysis for a quick comparison. Steve's raw frozen chicken food has 72.5% moisture. Acana free run poultry has 12%. I am going to unscientifically compare it to eating watermelon vs. popcorn. Going to need a drink of something with that popcorn whereas you'll need a napkin for all that juice running down your face from the watermelon.

 

I always notice a huge difference in water bowl consumption between raw fed and kibble fed.


Powerflex

by Powerflex on 13 November 2018 - 17:11


After feeding what most would consider a large amount of dogs for about 50 years I hesitate to comment on what dog food is best. I have seen more fights start out by my dog food is better than your dog food than my dog is better than your dog. But here I go anyway.

After feeding both kibble and raw prepared diets for that time it is very clear that for the 90% of dogs that never have to experience a very high level of physical activity, aside from the lower intake of food and water, and the larger amount and volume of stools, you may see little difference.

For those that are in high physical activities like sled dog racing both sprint racing , 10 to 20 miles a day at 20 mph average, and distance racing like Anchorage to Nome at a 100 miles a day, you will find only a balanced raw food diet for the activity will be competitive.
For lower levels of stress you will see less difference, but the difference will be noticeable. If your dog is on a very moderate exercise plane the difference may be difficult to see, but it will be there.
Life span, I have had dogs live to 14+ years and some not make it to 10 on both.

A good quality kibble will put weight on a dog and a shine in its coat and most dogs switched to a balanced raw diet will put on more muscle and body condition. Energy level usually goes up.

When we begin to wean a litter to solid food we have better results with a balanced raw mix than a milk based gruel. The milk based meal is a learning experience and is partially eaten and the meat meal is attacked and consumed with the first feeding.

The above is what I have seen over the 50 years with sled dogs, herding dogs, hunting dogs and working GSD and Dutch Shepherds.

This is my opinion.
It appears over the years we have moved away from the purpose of the dog to work to the purpose of the dog to be a pet. That may not be bad, but in doing this we have tried to make the dogs digestive system more like our human system. That is bad for the dog. The dogs digestive system is much better than ours if we don't continue to try to change it.

Most dogs are never taken to half the level they are capable of and we think they are at a high activity level. Most would benefit by more activity.

The amount of chemicals in the dogs diet and our humane diet have a role in this also, but that is a more lengthly subject for another time.

I appreciate all comments on this forum even if I don't agree with some of them it causes one to question themselves.

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 13 November 2018 - 19:11

With modern farming / animal-rearing methods, one can't be sure that what we feed raw or put on our own plates is any more free of the intervention of chemicals than are kibbles.
Jessejones

by Jessejones on 13 November 2018 - 20:11

As I mentioned in my first post on the other parallel thread, nothing is as divisive as dog food lately. 

Thanks Powerflex for your insightful post.

So, my point is, do whatever you want to do, it is up to you. I try to convince no one.

I will just posts some helpful groups below for those that want to research raw feeding.

Personally, I do not ONLY want to give my dogs kibble.

Kibble is baked at very high temperatures to make it stable for many years. Killing all nutrients. Sick and diseased animals are routinely used for dog food. Then vitamins, mostly synthetic, are added to to the dry mass again. Many are flavored with artificial appetite stimulating substances. Of course ther are better ones and worse ones...but  still....

It would be like me eating dead dry crackers or biscuits infused with vitamins, and nothing else, my whole life long. No live Enzyms in my food.

I don’t even like taking vitamins as many are synthetic and made in China in bulk. Things like certain amino-acids are even made with barber shop hair clippings, from India, bought in huge bags. No thank you!

Of course all of our food is being industrialized, no doubt. No one can escape that today unfortunately. 

But I try to do the best I can within my budget to give my dogs and myself correctly feed and real food as often as I can. Cooked and raw, both.

 

Again, if you feed raw, you must research and do it right.

As I mentioned, here is the chart for raw meaty bones:

Perfectly Rawsome which has a handy bone percentage chart

An image

https://perfectlyrawsome.com/dogs/

Facebook Groups:

Some are private and you have to join them. So I’m not sure if all the links below will work for you if you are not logged into facebook. But you can search for them.

Raw Feeding Advice and Support
https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=451782265003776&ref=content_filter

Raw Feeding University https://m.facebook.com/groups/1612246702364265?tsid=0.5610069020344278&source=result

Raw Fed German Shepherds https://m.facebook.com/groups/1188860574474423

Just my opinion.

Jessejones

by Jessejones on 13 November 2018 - 21:11

More of my opinion...LOL!

Does feeding human grade food, whether raw or cooked, mean your dog will live longer?

Maybe maybe not.

It depends on many more things too...

For example:
-Genetics are, maybe the most, important health marker

-vaccines and over vaccination

-medications, especially over-use of antibiotics.

-bad teeth - tartar, gum disease from only kibble and no tooth care.

-environmental polutants, including things like RoundUp Weedkiller from Monsanto/Bayer, which you don’t even know has been used when you are out and about...dogs are lower to the ground and sniffing....you can imagine the rest. Car exhaust fumes, on level with a dogs nose. Fertilizers on grass and ground...paws walk through it all.

-flea, tick and heart worm repellent meds or collars. Toxic.

- household cleaning suplies and air fresheners.

-Flame retardant materials used for dog beds, rugs and furniture, that off-gas for years.

-Fluoride and chlorine/chloride, and medications, lead, in tap water (at least in most of USA) almost forgot that one.

So, we are so swamped with chemicals, its hard to know what causes early death or disease. Not saying anything new here...we all know this...
Oh, Happy day 🎶.
 


Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 13 November 2018 - 22:11

One of the reasons I resist people who tell me I 'should' feed raw (not you, Jesse) is this: of that great number of dogs I have fed over all those decades [history very similar to Powerflex, which - given our different conclusions - just proves my point about how dogs can differ], a very significant number even in more recent years have lived into double figures. Quite agree some of that is genetic. But when sites like this are full of moans about dogs dying young, and the breed being less physically able to cope, it amuses me that I'm supposed to be doing it all wrong by feeding kibbles, yet so many of 'my' dogs have made it to 12, 13, 14 ... and so very few of them have succumbed to cancers and other serious illnesses.

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