Cant a Good dog (Show line) be Sable? - Page 1

Thats incredible that if we look back over the last 15 years we wont see many sables as a German VA, here is a question: Dont VA dogs born in the sable collor or arent them even analized as one? Timo was an exception over the time and even having a magnific structure had to face many dificulties with those who believe the only accepted collor is the "Black and Tan". I am sure there are good dogs not only in the sable collor but also in the black collor! If we keep this way in a little period of time there will be two diferent BREEDS, the German Shepherd (Show line) and The working line German Shepherd (with all collors valued), and believe me, as the German Shepherd should be a complete and versatile breed created to the work that separation wont bring any good to the breed. Lets get back on the road! Lets care a little about temperament and accept the other collors because as Captain Max V. Stefanitz writed "A good dog cant be of wrong collor". The prejudice is bringuing a distorsion. There is no reason to the sables have better temperament, yet most of them do! Because since they had no chance in the shows they survived at the Working fields, while the black and tan is going in the other direction. Since most of the black and tan breeders care only about how the dogs look and walk, these dogs are been selected for apearance and there is no reason for a dog that cant really work to exist in a breed of "Working Dogs!".

José, I agree 100%. The sable is a foundation colour of the GSD; so why does the S.V. (or other dog clubs) have such an issue with it? Prejudice in favour of the red/black (Germany) and the tan/black (U.S.A.). The judges (on both sides of the Atlantic) conveniently forget the F.C.I. standard and base their opinions on the current fad. It's been the "current" fad for a long time; hasn't it? The saddle dogs of yesterday and today were produced by careful selection from certain sable dogs, and interestingly enough, it is often required that the sable be reintroduced every three (3) generations or so in order to strengthen the saddles of the saddled puppies in the litter. It's a shame I agree that the only place that a beautiful sable can ever excel is in the working dog world. That is not how it was meant to be. Bob-O

Well said Jose, the other colors seem frowned upon or rejected in general as show dogs. There are some V rated dogs that are not black and tan. However, I wonder how many more there could be if color wasn't such a factor.

I had been told at one time... That the sable was a washed out / bleeding color. with that said I can see why many peoples steer clear of the color. I was also told the same of the whites. and that the blacks lacked pattern as well. My question would be, Is there supposed to be a saddle pattern ? If so then it would be true what I had been told, That sables lack the pattern (they bleed or fade into each other) White's lack pigment and are a solid with no pattern, and blacks lack pattern. bi color would be in this group as well. If there is not "Supposed" to be a saddle pattern then Sable should be accepted and any other color of GSD should also be, if that is in fact the case. Did I get that right ? hope so. I don't know I was under the impression there were some set standards on color, My impression was that Rich colors are the preffered, while most colors are allowed, Whites are serious fault, and DQ. Blues and livers are serious faults as well, as they are considered Washed out or faded. Now don't take it that I don't agree that Temperament, Structure, "Complete GSD" is not what we should be looking at, IT IS !!! But I have to think that color and coat is part of that big picture as well. Goes back to the "Complete GSD" You should be able to have a Good looking, Beautiful, Family dog, Working partner, who will last 12 to 15 years without serious Health Issues. That's what I want. But I will say to each his own ! :-)

It is too bad that the(SV) goes by color. The color of the dog is not the heart and soul of the dog and how it proves itself in it's work. Timo was a great example of the GSD. Almost perfect in my eyes. JMO! The Von Arlett Kennel has had some very nice dogs out there Kennel that were Sable. Is there a reason breeding/health wise that more Sable dogs are not seen in the Show Ring? Besides fads and politics? Dawn Bonome

Hmmm, I was under the imperession that most of the "old" original GSD's were sable in color. Am I wrong on that? I assumed we have the saddle and blk/red due to preference and these are the dogs that get bred most often because of that "fad". Does anybody have any factual evidence of this, or just opinions?

Yes, I think a sable can and should be a good show dog if it is a good dog in all the other areas. Arlett kennel has beautiful sables. Again the problem is with predjudice and fad. In my opinion a quality dog is a quality dog,is a quality dog ,is a quality dog! Sable is not a fault . I do not think those with color faults should be shown or bred such as white,blue,liver. This doesn't mean those with the color faults can not be good dogs but the question here is about sables.

EchoMeadows, one can find washed-out colours in all types of coat color schemes. A sable can be judged the same way; how rich is the black, the red, the tan, the grey? I own the second red sable of my lifetime who has a very rich red/black pigment, and she is a very pretty girl. 4pack, you are correct when one examines the dogs of the past, as there were very many more sable dogs that were top contenders, and a few bicolours and greys as well. I will repeat some that was said to me one time, and of course I cannot say that it is a fact for I have never seen supporting data. The statement was "Well, one (1) thing about a sable mating-you will never see a longcoat produced." If someone could expand on that I would appreciate it. I really doubt that statement is 100% accurate. I think that barring hard evidence that says otherwise, that we can blame the exclusion of the sable dogs as pure prejudice, plain and simple. This is a great thread-thanks José. Bob-O

I agree and what about the blacks? I really love a nice black GSD. Not many place well at shows. More predjudice I assume? Shunned like the sables. It's almost like the dog has to be Super exceptional to be "seen" in the ring if it is a sable. This turns me off to show stuff. It's like watching cookie cutter dogs run in circles. A good working dog is a good working dog, I will cheer my head off, no matter what color he is.

Wow thanks Bob-O, never heard that said about sables and long coats. I'll start looking into that myself. I just never thought to look for that coinky dink. I have seen plenty of sables (DDR) with lots of black on the outter coat, but underneath they are a pale cream. What makes the better pigment, the dark black tips or the darker red undercoat? I hear diff from everybody it seems. I like my boy, he is very red and brown with black points. I don't see that as often.