Pirschgang...........Gama pedigree......... - Page 2

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by GSDHeritage on 27 August 2022 - 19:08

Rik could you clarify this statement?

"it's pretty sad that PDB has chosen the AKC as the standard bearer for the GSD."

The PDB has not chosen the AKC GSD Standard.  There are more Foreign FCI GSDs entered on a daily basis than AKC dogs.  The AKC is not a member of the FCI.


Rik

by Rik on 28 August 2022 - 21:08

as usual, something gets lost over the interwebs. I registered my first dog with AKC in 1972. Since then I have participated in a lot of their activities including Conformation showing, obedience titles. Co founded the GSDC of North Alabama in the 80's and put on lots of Shows and trials for the next 20 years.

I'm currently taking a rescue dog to an AKC affiliate obedience club for training. all the trainers are volunteer and it is a fantastic club.

but the clubs are not "the" AKC. "the" AKC is the club that drummed the SV, FCI, AKC judge out of their organization because he kept questioning why they had no mandatory health checks for breeding dogs. As far as I know, they still don't.

Sunsilver

by Sunsilver on 29 August 2022 - 08:08

And no temperament or working test requirements, either.

Carmen (Carmspack) and a handful of other breeders fought very hard against considerable opposition to require a temperament test for Canadian GSDs before they were allowed to receive an Excellent Select conformation title.

There are far too many dogs out there that can't meet the breed standard for temperament, which makes the whole point of having a standard a joke:

Temperament The breed has a distinct personality marked by a direct and fearless, but not hostile, expression, and self-confidence and a certain aloofness which does not lend itself to immediate and indiscriminate friendships. The Shepherd Dog is not one that fawns upon every new acquaintance. At the same time, it should be approachable, quietly standing its ground and showing confidence and a willingness to meet overtures without itself making them. It should be poised, but when the occasion demands, eager and alert, both fit and willing to serve in any capacity as companion, watch dog, blind leader, herding dog or guardian; whichever the circumstances may demand. The Shepherd Dog must not be timid, shrinking behind its master or handler, nervous, looking about or upward with anxious expression or showing nervous reactions to strange sounds or sights, or lackadaisical, sluggish, or manifestly disinterested in what goes on about him. Lack of confidence under any surroundings is not typical of good character. Cases of extreme timidity and nervous unbalance sometimes give the dog an apparent, but totally unreal, courage and it becomes a “fear biter,” snapping not for any justifiable reason but because it is apprehensive of the approach of a stranger. This is a serious fault subject to heavy penalty


mrdarcy (admin)

by mrdarcy on 29 August 2022 - 13:08

Rik that still does not explain your sentence "it's pretty sad that PDB has chosen the AKC as the standard bearer for the GSD." as it is just not true. 


by GSCat on 29 August 2022 - 23:08

by Rik on 28 August 2022 - 21:08

but the clubs are not "the" AKC. "the" AKC is the club that drummed the SV, FCI, AKC judge out of their organization because he kept questioning why they had no mandatory health checks for breeding dogs. As far as I know, they still don't.

 

by Sunsilver on 29 August 2022 - 08:08

And no temperament or working test requirements, either.
 

 

The only way some of this will change at all is if enough consumers start demanding it and refusing to buy from breeders, brokers, puppy mills, and pet stores that sell GSD puppies without verifyable documented health checks, health guarantees (two years or more, not 5-day or 2-week), and working titles (or parents verifiably working in the function the puppy is being purchased for).  In fairness breeders, this can't happen overnight, either.

 

The only way this will happen is if the public gets educated.  The moral panic about puppy mills only addressed inhumane conditions, not the quality of the breeding stock, but it did do some good, at least in some places.

 

Conformation shows need to change so they reflect the WHOLE breed standard for EVERY breed, not just appearance.  Perhaps health checks could be introduced as a requirement for dogs over a certain age to compete in conformation shows, too?  This way, conformation-titled dogs would be both pretty AND suitable for breeding :-)

 

Temperament is harder because so many want a pet GSD instead of a working GSD, and so many breeders and puppy mills oblige because this is what sells the most.  And different jobs require different temperaments, even if they all fall meet the criteria of the temperament portion of the breed standard, so breeders producing for specific jobs will necessarily breed for the right temperament for that job (LE/military, SAR, service dogs, etc.).

 


Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 30 August 2022 - 04:08

Its usually a mess anyway. Different scale because less populations than the N American versions, but here in the UK - even with a fairly high number of both GSD enthusiasts / breeder-exhibitors PLUS many across other breeds - nagging at our KC for decades, the only results we've got so far in re health testing is some basic 'musts' if you want to (pay to) sign up for their accredited breeders scheme. Not if you want to Register puppies. No restriction there. Nor on whether untested dogs get to compete.

We've had eye tests retained on the KC scheme as mandatory for some, 'recommended' for others, even when for years & years no dog has tested positive. We've had long-term refusal to replace with relevant testing. There are unresolved issues about recording acceptable colours of pups. We've had an assortment of other such wrangles.

We currently have a largely very unhappy dog-people population due to delays and mistakes with the KC's attempt to update its technology - compounded by, but not caused by, Covid. The KC seems to think that if they clear a few peoples' queries and keep announcing "Its all going smoothly now" that folk won't believe their own experiences. We have (as I touched on above) an 'old boys club' mentality still frustrating those, members and non-members, who feel the dogs and their health, and the customers, should take priority. And in Sheps we are still subject to pre-Show vet testing and 'Class 3' status re healthy breeding, even though GSDs routinely pass those vet exams. Alongside brachycephalic breeds ! But with us there is no clear-cut path to producing a result that will free us of that burden.

We've had ludicrous delays in producing Registration records, both for individuals as breeders or researchers, and via the quarterly review supplements. Same applies to Health records, microchip records, show awards. And still the KC take our money, and try to sell us more. (Insurance, & other schemes.) As their Petlog subsidiary they even want to charge me double to change an address on a microchip, by phone, BECAUSE THEIR REVISED ONLINE SYSTEM WON'T ALLOW ACCESS WITHOUT A CELL PHONE NUMBER ! Bugger if the dog gets stolen or run over in the meantime.

Maybe when people get on KC  / AKC committees they leave their brains / common sense out on th' stoop ?

 


Rik

by Rik on 30 August 2022 - 06:08

well, let me back up and say I wasn't saying PDB was sad. as a matter of fact, PDB has been a very valuable resource in my journey into Euro GSD. and no matter what issue someone may have, someone here will most likely have experience with and share it. I think stuff like this is good for the people and the dogs.

What I find sad is that an organization that has clearly stated that they are a registry and not a health organization for dogs, is somehow presenting themselves as concerned with the health of dogs.

there are member clubs in the AKC that are very concerned with the health of their breed, but they are just that, members and cannot impose mandatory checks.

then there are clubs that have resisted any and all attempts at any requirements for health checks.


by GSDHeritage on 30 August 2022 - 10:08

Rik,

 The AKC does need to make changes.  The AKC does not require DNA or Health testing on dogs they register as the SV does.  AKC accepts dogs that might not be a Purebred GSD since they register dogs without requiring DNA for proof of sire and dam.  Dogs are registered CONDITIONAL REGISTRATION later to get full registrations removing the QD to a valid letter.

Example:

https://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2569794-k9pines-fourth-generation-brindle-is-mozart?_v=20190727142705

The PDB needs proof a dog has been health tested by a reliable source otherwise the health data is removed.

https://www.pedigreedatabase.com/community.read?post=936188-testing-of-dogs-done-by-usa-labs-the-usa-ckc-foreign-bred-dogs-need-to-be-verified-by-ofa

The Admins try to make the PDB safe for their members viewing dogs and their pedigrees or possibly purchasing a dog here.
 


Rik

by Rik on 30 August 2022 - 14:08

GSDH, every dog I have purchased since 2008 has been from direct contact and research on this site.

Every one, except one, I considered to be well worth whatever price I paid. and that one has been the pride and joy of the home I placed her in for the past 14 years and she's still ticking.

My journey through AKC land did not have such good results, I appreciate and participate in lots of activities offered by AKC member clubs, including rehabing a 2 time rescue now through the local AKC Obedience training Club.

most of the clubs and the volunteers who run them are great dog people. but I was treasurer for 2 of those clubs for approx 20 years and I wrote "the AKC" many checks. and I still don't know who "the AKC" is. "the AKC" is the one cashing the checks.

the clubs are the ones doing the work and all the good things people read about and see and then run out to buy dogs registered by the AKC thinking all is well because they read up on their chosen breed on the AKC website.

"The AKC" is directly responsible for many of the "lemon" puppy laws passed by many states.


Sunsilver

by Sunsilver on 30 August 2022 - 15:08

My last two dogs were also a result of me being on this site. And any complaints I have are the result of my own ignorance, and nothing to do with this site.

Eska: https://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/community.read?post=811758-puppies

She's the third pup in the thread.






 


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