German Shepherd Dog > Interesting SL/WL cross. What do youo like or dislike about the cross (90 replies)
Interesting SL/WL cross. What do youo like or dislike about the cross
by charlie319 on 13 June 2012 - 03:27
Has been consumated...
I've always said that the basic problem with most SL/WL breedings is that usually one mate is of much better quality than the other. Occasionally, we see a breeding where both parents are of better than good quality. In this case, we have a very good male with very good working dogs in his pedigree and VA conformation. While he has not been bred that much, my understanding is that his pups have very good work in protection. On the dam side, we have a well accomplished WL female, also of excellent breeding, temperament and comformation. The female is a proven producer of dogs with excellent temperament. While I would speculate that this breediing should produce some very attractive candidates for IPO sport and Personal Protection, I'm interested to hear the opinions of others on this breeding.
by yellowrose of Texas on 13 June 2012 - 04:39
I will take all the pups here in Texas and you can be free of some great working pups"!!!!!
U of course , are aware this lower pedigree is where
G Zidane vom Haus Sevens came from?
which I was told a few weeks ago ZIDANE went on the RAINBOW BRIDGE a little while back..
YOU will have a good litter to research on and let us know how the end result meets your EXPECTATIONS..
And the two dogs in my avitar are products of your top dog back to the
Pedigrees of my WLwg/slWG mix of Buseckerschloss, Cadett and Zilla v Wiethurchen/then with Bear Jerome /uran son and I then added a Tiekerhook Gr son so I can say ....I would think you hit the MEGA JACKPOT...
KEEP us informed .
by yellowrose of Texas on 13 June 2012 - 04:51
| I saw the old line many have mixed feelings about|
SEE the black spot on the two culprits on avitars TONGUE..???
HAVE TO blame someone somewhere...I chose to Blame the SteffenHaus,/ENCLAVEHOF, BuseckerSchloss /Wiethurchen mix/?
I will roll the dice on your good selection !!!
VA5 Lasso di Val Sole on the top line and I chuckled.
by ziegenfarm on 13 June 2012 - 06:43
|not a breeding i would have done. while i am not totally against wl/sl crosses, i don't feel this particular breeding has any defined goals. |
when doing such a breeding, it is absolutely imperative that the showline portion carry sufficient strength of nerve to sustain the aggression found in the workingline portion. what we do not want to see in wl/sl crosses are high drive dogs, with low thresholds and aggression. sorry, but you asked and i am just being honest. i hope i am wrong & they all turn out fabulous.
***here is an example of a wl/sl cross that i really like. just for the info:
by cage on 13 June 2012 - 09:10
|Leon failed Slovak breed survey test twice,then they did SV BST with him /a lot of SL owners do so in Slovakia as SV test is easier /.|
by judron55 on 13 June 2012 - 10:44
|Leon failed Slovak breed survey test twice...|
well, that speaks volumes....personally, if I was going to do such a breeding, I'd have to know both dogs very well...not saying that you don't:-) Have you ever worked the male...or seen him work?
by Gustav on 13 June 2012 - 11:11
|@ pjp now that is a nice wl/sl breeding because of the great nerve strength of Hannes thru Doc, and Gipsi has a very nice pedigree of strong nerves Sl dogs in addition to being proven herself,jmo|
by Bob McKown on 13 June 2012 - 13:04
By what definition do you define" His pups have very good work in protection" and "many good working dogs in his pedigree" This is the crux of the whole issue. Is it working to the sport? to the standard? I guess it all comes back to the issue of work definition.
by cage on 13 June 2012 - 13:05
|Here is his Slovak BST in Vyhne,it was the 2nd time he failed BST - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbpHX-DWJ9Y&feature=youtu.be|
by Bob McKown on 13 June 2012 - 13:23
Just watched the video and got my answer.
by Rass on 13 June 2012 - 14:08
|Again, I will say this, WL dogs and SL dogs tend to be very different these days. VERY. In the F1 generation the results are often dogs with drive but (as one person I know said) ther is "nothing behind it." They seem to get the WL drive but the SL lack of nerve and courage. It IS genetic. |
Now.. if you have a ton of money and homes for all the puppies, you could take the F1 generation and breed back on WL and then again on the F2 generation.. but now you have probably gone back into the dogs looking and working like WL dogs and MAYBE.. just MAYBE you will get the conformation to come forward but probably not.
To breed dogs one thing you need to be is a very very sharp culler. If you are breeding SL dogs, then you need to cull anything and everything that has any show of a lack of nerve and courage and still be careful about conformation. If you are breeding WL dogs you need to cull everything that is weak in conformation and those that lack G.O. Breeding dogs means a LOT more culling than keeping!! Culling BTW means selling to pet homes and not breeding weak dogs.
The dogs that are being used for breeding could easily be halved today and the breed would benefit. JMO. No one need agree.
by charlie319 on 13 June 2012 - 14:27
|I must say that I don't own either of the dogs in this breeding. I'm quite familiar with the female and I find her to be pretty much everything you'd (or I would) want in a GSD. The male I'm not personally familiar with, but on paper he looks quite well and I've seen videos of him at work. Would he have been my choice, it would be hard to say as I see a lot of dogs with good protection from the Vom Arlett kennels. My taste in male conformation runs more to the Odin, Ursus type dog and for this kind of breeding I'd have gone with VA2 Ork vom der Werther Muhle who is in Houston as a safer/mre tested option, but there's a lot to like in this breeding. |
As far as his Slovak breed survey is concerned, I'm not privy to that information, but from what I understand, he's sired a couple of litters and someone who's worked dogs from them said that they have proper aggression and excellent drives.
BTW, Darius is a fine looking dog, at least what little can be seen on his PDB picture. He's also a product of what can happen when good quality dogs are used on both sides of these WL/SL crosses. Congratulations on a fine breeding. Good conformation and good working and social temperament is what all breeders should be aiming for.
I posted the videos I saw above. I did not say "many good dogs", but "In this case, we have a very good male with very good working dogs in his pedigree and VA conformation" I like that Leon has Basko vom Deninghauserpark, Esko vom Danishen Hoff and Timo vom Berrekasten in his pedigree. On paper, he should be quite nice and pass on some excellent traits. On the other hand, the dam is of solid conformation and produces very nice pups with very good drives.
I have not personally seen Leon's offspring, but I've been told that he produces good temperament and drives by someone who's worked his pups from several dams.
IMPO, I'd think that the breeding is aimed at a "Universal Sieger" type dog. Fairly high placing in both conformation and work.
by VKGSDs on 13 June 2012 - 14:32
|The video was disturbing. I don't like to write dogs off (or put them on a pedestal) based on videos but....I'd probably have to see several DAYS worth of outstanding work from the dog to erase that.|
by UglyK9 on 13 June 2012 - 14:57
|The female is an extremely nice dog of lines that are getting more rare to find. she should have been bred to something that would compliment this. Say a linebreeding on Yoschy......|
by Felloffher on 13 June 2012 - 15:17
This dog isn't breed worthy.
by djc on 13 June 2012 - 15:27
Perhaps you should go back and find the thread on show lines that produce good work? Timo and Esko are not among the ones on that list. I see Quartz by Amigo in the back, but that is the only good working show lines I see in the sire's pedigree. Could be wrong, as I don't know everything about every dog, but the ones mentioned I know to be true.
I love the dam's pedigree!! But she needs A LOT of compensation in the conformation department. I don't think the short coat, light bone and average angulation of the sire will be enough to compensate.
BUT who knows, maybe a pup or 2 will come up with all the good stuff! Good luck!
by cage on 13 June 2012 - 15:57
|Look at this SL boy,he is a great example of SL dog with great working drives and really strong nerves.I am a WL person but this boy has only one mistake - and that is that he isn´t mine,LOL.I would take him anyday. http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=598541 , here are some videos of him http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Yp5LMDTWbM&feature=relmfu , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3maBWFxCzh4&feature=relmfu ,he is 9 months old in the videos,see how much pressure he can handle.|
by judron55 on 13 June 2012 - 16:10
|the female shows 21 progeny.....she is almost 10 yrs. old....probably last breeding:-)|
by ziegenfarm on 13 June 2012 - 16:12
|@cage, agree that darth seems to have stable nerves and can handle pressure, but far too equipment oriented to suit me. this may be because of his training, but i would want to be sure of that first and be certain that the equipment is not a safe zone for him when finding that the man is too much of a threat.....know what i mean?|
@charlie, i just wanted to make sure you undersdtood that the link i posted was not a breeding i did.....it is one that i like very much. the dogs are owned by kandi jacopino and dee clark.
by UglyK9 on 13 June 2012 - 16:34
|Judron, yea this could be her last. The last breeding out of her was this |
From one of very few Yoschy Grandsons in the country. It was a 3-4 on Yoschy......Should have repeated that breading