DM Testing - Page 1

Pedigree Database

Premium classified

This is a placeholder text
Group text

Premium classified

This is a placeholder text
Group text

Premium classified

This is a placeholder text
Group text

Premium classified

This is a placeholder text
Group text

by stoelzle on 16 November 2015 - 15:11

Can anyone explain to me about DM testing. My vet didn'y seem to know much about early testing. the reputable breeder I purchased my GSD says he bought the kit but never used them to test as he felt them to be unreliable. I would like anyone getting a pup from me to have the best chance at a healthy pup that will stay healthy into its golden years.
Please share what you know about early testing.

Western Rider

by Western Rider on 16 November 2015 - 16:11

Do a search of this site and you will find many  threads on this subject. 


jdiaz1791

by jdiaz1791 on 25 November 2015 - 04:11

The letter you get from them with the results, since the beginning years ago, estates there had been some false positives. You order it through the offa.org website .

by Bavarian Wagon on 29 November 2015 - 01:11

You can test at any point, its a genetic test. Genetics don't change. If the costs were lower I could see breeders doing the test on all their puppies at just weeks old just to see which ones are clear or carriers and then possibly having that affect their decision on which puppies to hold back and which ones to sell. As of now though, at around $50 a test from the various providers, most breeders aren't going to shell out that kind of money for a whole litter. There are questions as to the validity of the tests in regards to the GSD and so many breeders still aren't using the test on any of their stock. I've spoken to many breeders who believe that this isn't a big enough issue as of now to be eliminating potential breeding stock due to the risk of a late onset disease.

I highly doubt your breeder didn't use it once he bought it. Probably didn't get the result they wanted so they told you that. It's like a week between the time you order the test until you get it and I have no idea why you'd change your mind on doing it after that period.

As of now, the majority of stud dogs aren't tested. I don't believe Europe is using it at all so any of the major studs that are coming over to the United States aren't tested. The test is very much "customer driven" and the only people that will question it are those that have done some minimal research and googled things so threads like this one (and other on the forum) pop up and worry them. The only other people that care are those that have possibly had a dog affected by the disease and so they want to avoid it at all costs. These people are a fairly small portion of the population. Since major stud dogs aren't being tested, the only thing that can come from testing your dam is that you get negative reviews or unnecessary "red flags" for breeding a dam that tests as a carrier or possibly at risk. Until EVERYONE starts testing, which will probably come when the market starts to call for it, the test is basically useless. Hopefully though we have a lot more information and accuracy before the test is "mandated" by the market.

Jenni78

by Jenni78 on 29 November 2015 - 02:11

It is *possible* the breeder didn't do it. Maybe not probable but possible.. I did it myself, lol. I ordered one years and years ago for Capri. Never used it, as it seemed every time I thought of it, she'd put something in her mouth and then ruin the moment (they have to have not eaten anything for some time before the test) and I put it away, out of sight, and forgot about it until we were packing to move and I found it, so I used it. The others I've done have been through another lab, and they're $57/ea, so yeah, for a litter of ten it gets pricey, but not a big deal to do it for those who ask.

I know I've stated this before, but I escape the whole DM drama thing over testing by saying SOD1 results not DM results. I feel that's the most honest thing I can tell a buyer.

by Bavarian Wagon on 29 November 2015 - 13:11

In either case, you're more likely to dig yourself into a hole rather than gain more customers. Like I said, the market isn't calling for wide spread DM testing and what is likely to happen is that you'll have to either drop the prices of puppies or even lose buyers when you have carrier or at-risk pups in your litter. I'd almost guarantee that you'll have a very hard time selling any puppies that could come back at-risk. Due to the public's general misunderstanding of the disease, the test, and its accuracy. I think it's a noble thought to want to give people as much information as possible, but when 99% still don't care I don't see why anyone would go through the extra expense and the higher risk of not being able to place puppies. Part of buying a puppy is the inherent risk of unknown diseases and other issues that might pop up, OP doesn't sound like someone who has been on the other side of the transaction, still thinking like a buyer and not like a seller.

by joanro on 29 November 2015 - 14:11

Sod1 gene could very well be coincidental re dogs with clinical DM. There is no proof that sod1 gene causes DM. The wire fox terrier breed has tested somewhere around 98% for AT RISK, yet there has never been a clinical case of DM reported in the breed.

by joanro on 29 November 2015 - 14:11

BTW, the DM test kit is free, you pay for the test when you send it in.
Selecting for quality dogs based on DNA is as efficient as selecting based on the dog's call name.

by Sheesh on 29 November 2015 - 14:11

Another complication of this is the dogs that are incorrectly diagnosed with DM by vets. I have heard many people say their GSD had the disease, but when asked about how the dog was diagnosed, they say their vet said it was likely that bc of the breed. It seems to be the "disease dujour". I realize we have it in our dogs, but it IS indeed misdiagnosed, adding to the panic. I can also tell you, as a small breeder, clients are asking for this test more and more. Unfortunately when I try to explain the fact that it is not a guarantee, they really don't understand or want to hear it.

Jenni78

by Jenni78 on 29 November 2015 - 15:11

Bavarian Wagon said : In either case, you're more likely to dig yourself into a hole rather than gain more customers. Like I said, the market isn't calling for wide spread DM testing and what is likely to happen is that you'll have to either drop the prices of puppies or even lose buyers when you have carrier or at-risk pups in your litter. I'd almost guarantee that you'll have a very hard time selling any puppies that could come back at-risk. Due to the public's general misunderstanding of the disease, the test, and its accuracy. I think it's a noble thought to want to give people as much information as possible, but when 99% still don't care I don't see why anyone would go through the extra expense and the higher risk of not being able to place puppies. Part of buying a puppy is the inherent risk of unknown diseases and other issues that might pop up, OP doesn't sound like someone who has been on the other side of the transaction, still thinking like a buyer and not like a seller. END QUOTE

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I don't think you were responding to me as it doesn't make much sense, but I'm curious: WHY would anyone be "digging themselves into a hole"? And "gaining more customers" has certainly never been a goal of mine with any DM/SOD1 testing I've done. Might help someone with a steady supply of puppies geared toward uneducated novices who don't understand the intricacies of the test, or someone who earns a living on pups in a commercial kennel, but I can't wrap my head around why you're suggesting that *not testing* is better than the possibility of losing puppy sales??? Which, I have *never* found to be the case.

It's a breeder's JOB to EDUCATE the buyer. Not just sell them a puppy. If someone asks about DM, I educate them. Most appreciate the honesty and are that much more likely *TO* buy than not, ironically, since other breeders have told them they can guarantee their puppy will never develop DM. Well, I can't, because we just don't have testing sophisticated enough for that, yet. Anyone guaranteeing any such thing is mistaken or dishonest.

Joan and Theresa have great points and I agree with both completely. Personally, I think the test is a moneymaker. But if I have a carrier, I want to know so I can let those who care know the status because I don't think I need to agree with someone's logic to afford them the knowledge they feel is important. I will tell them why I think it's nonsense, but I will not say they don't have the right to choose a dog with a certain status. They certainly do.

For now, I just won't knowlingly breed two carriers together. Would I import a pup with an unknown status? You bet. It's just not a big deal to me. But to each their own and I still think there can be benefits to testing if for no other reason than to, several years down the road, find out that the test WAS b.s. and then they have more info for something better.

I do find it odd that I have never seen a single case of confirmed DM in 15 years around the breed. I must just be getting very lucky...or it's really not that prevalent in certain lines at all.





 


Contact information  Disclaimer  Privacy Statement  Copyright Information  Terms of Service  Cookie policy  ↑ Back to top