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Listed in descending chronological order
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| I AM NOT DEFENDING THE KORZWIN KENNEL AS A FRIEND BUT AS A FELLOW BREEDER AND EXHIBITOR. IT IS NO GOOD MOANING ABOUT THE JUDGES DECISION GIVING RANDY THE CC, HE WAS THE BEST DOG THERE ON THE DAY [IN THE JUDGES OPTION] IF ANYBODY DISAGREES WITH THAT DECISIONS, WHERE WERE THEY ON THAT DAY WITH THERE DOGS WITH GOOD HIPS TO CHALLENGE RANDY. THE SAYING “YOU HAVE GOT TO BE IN IT TO WIN IT” COMES TO MIND. THERE IS ANOTHER VERY WELL KNOWN KENNEL APART FROM THE KORZWIN KENNEL SHOWING AN ANIMAL WITH HIGH HIPS AT THE MINUTE, AND UNTIL THAT ANIMAL GETS AN MAJOR AWARD NOTHING WILL BE SAID. IN MY OPINION AS LONG AS THEY ARE NOT DOING ANY HARM TO THE BREED WHY NOT HAVE SOME FUN. KEITH AND LINDA WERE OPEN ABOUT RANDY’S HIPS, THEY COULD HAVE BEEN UNDER HANDED ABOUT IT AND FIDDLED THE SCORE, AS IT HAS BEEN DONE BEFORE AND NOBODY WOULD HAVE BEEN ANY THE WISER. |
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Hi Linda,
As I said at the show, huge congratulations to you all at Korzwin, you absolutely deserve the success you have had this year. I know how much effort you and Keith put into your dogs and that shows with the excellent performance always displayed in the ring and their love for you that simply shows in everything they do for you.
Randy is a fabulous dog both in temperament and construction and absolutely deserved the win on saturday.
Well done with wee Jilly willy too :-))
Mandy & Roseanne |
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Keith, Helen (Randy's co owner) and myself would like to thank everyone for their congratulations on Randy being awarded the CC. Not only on this board but also everyone who phoned,emailed, sent cards and who said it at the show. We truly appreciate it.
Thanks again
Linda,Keith and Helen |
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David
We have never had the desire to show in Germany so there for none of our dogs have ever needed to have the relavent qualifications.
But I am sure if we changed our minds and where happy to do so we could do the same as the majority of Brits and send them to a trainer in Germany
Linda B |
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David
I totally agree with you that almost every bad hip score comes from parents with Good hips and that the basis of the scoring schemes is to identify them. Unfortunitly we will never identify dogs who are producing high hips as many people screen at 6-7 months then do not keep dogs who's hips don't look so good or xray them at a year old and do not submitt for scoreing.
Randy's hip score was already public knowledge and scores are not taken into account for dogs under 2 years of age at the British Sieger.
Linda B |
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| Almost every BAD hip score comes from parents with good hip scores, and most also have litter mates with excellent hip scores. The basis of the Hip Schemes is to "identify them" - such is the nature of Hip Dysplasia. The German ZW scheme goes further and tries to identify the "family" influence of hips. |
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Linda: It is now very clear that his hip score was not entered because it could have influenced the judge. It is now also clear that you did not want his score to be public knowledge for the same reason. To blame me for the decisions of judges is ridiculous. If we have GSD judges who are influenced as you suggest, then they should not get judging appointments. Maybe we have judges who are also influenced by "cliques" - is that also possible?
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Korzwin Randy
Dam: Korzwin Ankara Hip score 6-6= 12
Sire: Korzwin Wallace Hip score 7-7=14
Litter sister Korzwin Ritzi Hip Score 6-5=11 |
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| Perhaps you will also agree that close to 100% of GSD in the UK, over 2 years of age, cannot be shown or bred from in Germany. Simply bec ause they do not have AALL of the required qualifications. Perhaps you would care to list such dogs in your kennel? or should I? |
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| Linda: There must be a lot of bigots in our breed. Far more comment to each other in this breed than on this database. Few are fooled or influenced by the few who comment on here. Many consider the anonymous ones as a joke and irrelevant, and almost certainly of no consequence whatsoever. I am sure the debate on the exhibiting of Randy will continue much more off this site. |
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| I am very sorry for poking my nose where it doesnt belong but LindaB,I agree with you! Like you said Randy will not do any harm to our breed because he wil not be used for stud. Randyis beautiful! As for Ice..no comments(dont want people running after me with axes in their hands)! |
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David
In answer to your question is it acceptable?. Under Kennel Club rules it is just as acceptable for us to show Randy regardless of his hip score as it is for you to Show UK Ch Ice von Steinhauerberg who has TWICE FAILED his Koerung meaning that he is not eligible to be shown or Bred from in Germany. Unlike Ice Randy is not offered at stud and will do the breed no harm.
I did not enter Randy's hip score on the entry form for the British Sieger show as it was of no relevance because of the age class he was in. You where present at the show and had a catalogue but said nothing at the time about Randy's hip score not being published.
David I am sure your comments will have had the desired affect and that there will be some Judges who will not award Randy top honour's for fear of the backlash they will receive from you. But we will continue to show him regardless. Showing is our hobby something that we have enjoyed doing for many years and will continue to enjoy despite small minded bigots like you.
BIGOT- person obstinately and unreasonably holding some creed or view and intolerant towards others.
Linda B |
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| David, Please give this up, it's hardly reasonable and many of us have printers... call it a day man. |
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| If as you say you do not like the comments on this dogs page why not delete them like all of mine, easy peasy lemon squeezy,lol liz |
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| absolutely no more, I do NOT like seeing some of the postings on this dogs 'comments' page. I have enjoyed competing with and watching this male in our rings. |
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OK then David, no more needs to be said then does it?
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| When I was told that Randy had bad hips, at Manchester CH. Show, earlier this year, by the owner, I expressed my sincere sympathy. It is tragic when we lose a very good male from our breeding pool, they are few enough. I was also told, by the owner, that Randy would compete in the few remaining shows he was entered in, and then go to a pet home. When I saw he was continuing to be campaigned I wondered why? The kennel have several other top GSD, which they are showing and winning with. I thought just maybe the owners had decided to submit his hips for scoring, and they had come back with a better score than anticipated. That is why I asked. The reason I asked on here was simply because I had just read on here that he had won a CC. I, like many others have known the owners for some years, and they have always been quite open and straight forward, I saw no problem in asking, as facts are facts, and hip scores are hip scores. I was surprised when some thought I had some agenda, and amazed when one implied jealousy. I suppose this is the level of silliness that infects our breed these days, along with double standards, one for friends and one for those they don't like. |
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| Relax guys I think that David has a valid point, my personal belief is that this dog is really good in construction and that he is actually no good for breeding due to his high hip scores. David has only requested certain information and the owners have provided it. I think that we should not get hyper and start a blame game. |
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I'm neither slipping nor sliding DP but I could be accused of taking a leaf out of your book! Nit-picking is something you excel at, I'm not fond of being misquoted and you are the biggest complainer when someone misquotes you!
I don't care enough to make assumptions about you DP, you're not relevant in my life but I've seen enough on here to know that you are (I'm going to continue to be polite) headstrong... aren't I nice?
Most of us seem to feel the same about Randy; that it's a great pity! One also feels for his owners/breeders, it must have been sickening and very sad.
Clearly, you are not troubled by such emotions... what a pity! |
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liz & missbeeb may just about be capable of understanding the following: I ASKED what his hip score was FIRST, because I did NOT know. It was AFTER his hip score was posted on here, that I asked "is it acceptable".
Quite a logical step I think. |
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| missbeeb: SLIP AND SLIDE as much as you like, "CERTAIN" is the word you used. You appear to assume a great deal about me, you and others should realise there is a vast difference between assumption and FACT. |
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DP, I wrote, "I feel certain" NOT, as you've quoted, I am certain. Randy's hip score is unusual and I DO feel that there has probably been some injury/trauma.
I am not a particular friend of anyone on this or any other Board, however, there are obviously people that I prefer/like to exchange posts with.
DP, you may NOW be asking whether or not it is acceptable but that was not what your original post "asked"!
I am not ignorant, DP and I have sufficient intellegence NOT to make such sweeping, all knowing statements... I leave that to you and those of a similar ilk. |
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| In Germany dogs cannot be bred without a Koerung, one would say that in the UK you should not breed with dogs from High hip grades. At the British Sieger Event after the age of 2 years any dog with a Hip score over 20 could not be shown or a dog with hips worse than NZ (German), you can show a dog up to the age of 3.5 years in Germany without a Koerung. I take it this dog would not have needed any hip status until this time. So to talk about what is allowed or not allowed if you follow the rules then you are quite within your right to show and enjoy your dog. As for breeding i.e Germany, or Showing ie the British Sieger the age of the dog would decide it`s future. The English show scene and Kennel Club Shows that is another matter. |
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Randy is not the first animal to recieve a major award with bad hips, Untill the KC have a rule that says otherwise, I don't think he'll be the last.
Mounty
I am not defending a friend, I apologise for assuming you knew Linda, which you obviously don't, or you would know she is more than capable of defending herself... |
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Please calm down my friends from accross the pond, I am not looking to pick on anyone or their dog, I admire you defending your friends, I look on the internet database every day and read the posts and see it is the same guys slapping each other on the back as in this case, same guys, my question was simply the rules of the Brit Sieger Show, if as Videx says no info on this dog in the catalogue when all other dogs had hips in print, then clearly when filling in the entry form it has a box asking for hip status that all dogs should have by the time they reach the 18 / 24 month class, so either the owners did not fill the box in and hoped it would not be questioned or someone on the commite has brushed it under the carpet but one thing for sure is that I bet the judge on the Sieger did not have a clue about the status of hips on this dog, an SV Judge would never surely make the top title at a Sieger Show to a dog that can not provide any progeny in the future of the breed, I agree at KC shows anything goes in all countries but not a Sieger Show. If you were at the German Sieger and this happened then please ask yourself honestly what your thoughts would be on such a thing?
I had not heard of this kennel so looked on their website and through previous posts to see they are Judges with good dogs from the pictures I see. Also you have to think of the second and third dogs who im sure are are also quality dogs with good hips, how must they be feeling?
If nothing is being hid from the World then the hips should be displayed against this good dog with all his relevent info i.e Elbow, DNA?
It would be nive for comments from neutrals also...... |
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I have been reading this thread very carefully, and I am simply amazed at the assertions being made.
comment "I am certain it was trauma" (hips) - this comments simply illustrates ignorance of hip dysplasia, and the strength of a 'correct' ball & socket joint.
comment "the owners hide nothing etc" - I have just checked the 2008 British Sieger Catalogue, YOUNG MALE CLASS - 10 entries - NINE ENTRIES WITH FULL DETAILS OF THEIR HIP SCORE/GRADE - ONE WITH "NOTHING REGARDING HIP STATUS" - You have guessed it, RANDY.
I am aware that the British Kennel Club Shows allow dogs with BAD hips to be shown and recieve the highest awards - my question is: Does this make it acceptable? |
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| Mounty,as already said you seem to know more about the UK show seen than you are letting on.The breeders owners of this excellant dog do not hide anything,and the dog is NOT AT STUD.They do not hide thier real names,kennel name,or contact details,so my question is why could you not ask them privately about this dog?The breeders /owners of this beautiful dog are honest,open breeders,not too many of those to the pound.Your comments are blatently obvious,not to compliment,but to TRY to discredit,IT HAS NOT WORKED. I do hope this will be the end of this. ONCE AGAIN WELL DONE ON A SUPER RESULT FOR A SUPER DOG!!!!! liz |
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Mounty
To answer your questions here in the UK under our Kennel Club rules and regulations a dog dose not need to have any health checks what so ever to enter a Kennel Club licenced show. The British Sieger show only requires dogs 2 years and over to have a breed survey. Randy will not be 2 years old untill January 2009. The Judge was not aware of Randy's hip status nor that of any other dog entered in the same class.
As for myself and my husband being Championship Show judges wonder how you knew that when you claim to know nothing about UK show scene.
This is Gunther Muller criteque from the British Sieger
KORZWIN RANDY 23months. above medium size,medium strong, very good pigmented male, dry and firm, of very good type, expressive, high wither, very good length and lay of the croup, correct angles fore and aft, steps correctly coming and going, very good movement with pronounced drive and free reach.
unless people around our show rings have x ray vision they won't see Randy's hips what they will see is a very well constructed male who is sound in both body and mind, with exceptional movement.
Linda B |
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Mounty
did the SV Judge have knowledge of this dogs bad hip status before awarding him Youth Sieger for the UK?
Dog is a Youth!!!! If you know the rules, you know the answer
I see the breeders owners are Championship Show Judges,
You SEE ....Where??????,
if so why would they promote a very bad fault around the show rings for newcomers to see and think it must be ok?
The same way we see many faults promoted in the ring, The difference being....This male will not hurt the breed in any way, As he is not at stud.
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Mounty, the owners of this dog are not allowing him to be used at stud, which is the most important thing! I'm feel certain that his score must have been due to some kind of injury or trauma... but we'll never know.
It is quite acceptable to campaign your dog in the UK in such circumstances, the owners are honest and sensible... that should always be admired and promoted... world wide! |
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Reading the threads about this nice looking male but please can someone make something clear to me, in my country as in all to my knowledge who have a Sieger Show, how if it is correct, how can a dog be a Youth Sieger with a very bad hipscore? Is this normal in the UK Sieger Show for a dog or bitch to get the top awards with hips way outside the A Stamp grade and with no Elbows or DNA?
wHAT IS THE RULE IN THE uk FOR YOUR sIEGER sHOW, did the SV Judge have knowledge of this dogs bad hip status before awarding him Youth Sieger for the UK? I see the breeders owners are Championship Show Judges, is this correct? if so why would they promote a very bad fault around the show rings for newcomers to see and think it must be ok? |
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Huge Congratulations to Keith, Linda and Helen on a fabulous CC yesterday. Very well done with your lovely boy, following on from his SG1 at the British Sieger Show. Best wishes for his future.
Heather & David
www.conbhaireangsd.co.uk |
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Congratulations Linda And Keith On Randy's CC a lovely male.
Sam & Phil |
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Hiys
Congratulation with your super boy, wish you all the very best for Randy in his bright future, a very deserving CC for a lovely male.
Tracey and Paul xx |
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Well done Keith & Linda for Randy's 1st CC.
Old saying_ _ _
A false friend and a shadow attend only while the sun shines.
Dennis & Pawlu |
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| There are many options, and just as many conclusions, many which are wrong. Choose your own, even if it's wrong, that's life. Who cares! |
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Linda and Keith
A fantastic result yesterday .
A lovely dog admired since a puppy.
I bet there were loads of tears !!!
Wish i'd been there
Carrie
x
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oh that is such a shame:(
but a HUGE well done
Kind regards,
Tracie. |
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David
If Randy's score was of interest to you all you had to do was ask us in person or email us at any time not wait until he had been awarded his first CC.
Linda B |
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| I was never told his hip score. I simply requested some factual information. Nothing more. I was hoping the score was better than what was anticipated by his owners. |
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Congratulations Linda and Keith, Randy is a beautiful dog but do not let jealous people spoil you success his results says it all.
Carol |
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| WHAT'S THAT OLD SAYING...... OH YES, PEOPLE IN GLASS HOUSES SHOULD NOT THROW STONES!!!!!!!!! LIZ |
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Missbee
Wish we could say it definitely was trauma that caused the hip score to be so high on one side but the truth is we don't know. But what we do know is that we are very proud to have Bred him and we love him to bits regardless.
Linda B |
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What a great pity Linda, was it due to an injury?
He's a superb looking dog. |
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David I am sure you already know as we have never kept it a secret that Korzwin Randy has a Hip Score of 3-47=50. This is the reason Randy is not at stud and that we have turned down so many stud enquiries. David you know how upset we where about RANDY'S hips as we talked to you about it just after we had him xrayed.
Linda B |
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| Dave that is very tastless, what has his hipscore got to do with him been shown. |
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Very many congratulations on Randy's C.C. at Scotland today.He looked super.!!! Here's to the next 2.!!!
Jackie and Ray x |
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| CONGRATULATIONS ON A SUPER WELL DESERVED AWARD. NO SURPRISE FROM A KENNEL THAT CONSISTANTLY PRODUCES TOP QUALITY DOGS,HERE'S TO RANDY'S NEXT 2. WELL DONE RANDY,KEITH AND LINDA. LIZ |
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Congrats Linda,Keith & Helen, Super result, this lovely young male is certainly fulfilling his early potential.
Well done Randy Here's to the next two.. |
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Dito what Jackie has said.
I was fortunate enough to be stewarding and saw the wonderful moment when Randy won his ticket, made better by the fact that Keith was handling him himself.
Well done Guys, he looked super today and performed perfectly.
Roll on the next 2 :-))
Mandy & Roseanne |
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Congratulations Linda & Keith on Randys first CC today at Scotland great news.
Jackie |
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Now you are just showing off lol. Great results AGAIN !!!! Well done to you both and of course the Korzwin gang
Tracey and Paul |
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THANK YOU VERY MUCH for all your kind comments about Korzwin Randy. we are so very proud of this lovely lad he is such a great dog to live with. Randy was awarded Best Dog yesterday at Fife GSD Show and again today at Allertonshire GSD Show only beaten for Best In Show by our own Korzwin Jilli.
Linda B |
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| Another top notch male from the Korzwin Kennel,congratulations. liz |
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Well done Randy, Linda and Keith. Randy looked very well.
Kerry/Philip
Kennel Shernaa |
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Congratulations to this very consistent kennel with your super results at the British Sieger and for putting on your kennel group. Very well done and best wishes for the future.
Heather, Dave and Jim xxx
www.conbhaireangsd.co.uk |
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Hi Guys
Much congratulations with Randy,well done, a super young male with a great future.
Tracey and Paul |
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This lad just loves the big stage for sure, as always he performed his socks off , congrats!!
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Well done,Keith & Linda on KORZWIN RANDY for gaining the FANTASTIC RESULT at the British Sieger 2008.
Pawlu & Dennis |
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| Many congrats to Korzwin Randy - Young Sieger 2008 - following on from - Puppy Sieger 2007 |
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Congratulations with Randy, SG 1,
Tracy/Alec |
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Congrats Keith and Linda and Helen with Randy!! he put in a fab performance wel done guys.
David Joan and Samantha xxx |
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| We are very proud of our home bred Korzwin Randy being awarded SG1 and young Sieger at the British Sieger Show |
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| new photo of Korzwin Randy now almost 16months old |
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Very nice puppy well done to you both.
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| Absolute super puppy..FROM 6 WEEKS this puppy has always looked superb,,,,,If he continues as he is doing ..Here's to a very bright future.. |
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A lovely pup, very typical of his grandsire, I wish you lots of success with him in the future.
Also well done with Jilly now a super junior et others. Indeed, at one point I wondered if you were going to give anyone else a chance of winning at all!! lol
Very Well Done to you both and Well Deserved.
Sue B x |
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| An excellent weekend for the Korzwins in Ireland, you have some super animals just now. We wish you all the best with them for the future. |
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| well done you had a super weekend |
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| well done to all at Korzwin for a fab result at the 2 day show !! :) |
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| Congratulations Linda & keith excellent result. |
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Well done to you both Linda and Keith and of course to Randy too! Your boy looked very good on the day, as well as Jilli and Linzi, what a great weekend for you.
Thought your Kennel group was very good too, I especially liked the guy dressed in pink, wonder who he was ha ha!
Congratulations,
Regards,
Sting |
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Korzwin Randy was 1st minor puppy dog and Best Puppy dog athis first show the British 2 Day national hosted by GSD Club Northern Ireland.
Thanks to everyone for the fantastic comments we recieved about him. |
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Classified: Czech Puppies
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