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Classified: Asko-Lutter-Son for top Stud
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OPEN FORUM to be held on SATURDAY 21st NOVEMBER '09 (71 replies)
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IMPORTANT NOTICE TO ALL OWNERS, BREEDERS, JUDGES AND ENTHUSIASTS OF THE GSD
The GSD Partnership formed from representatives of the GSD Breed Council, the BAGSD and the GSD League of GB, invite all interested parties to attend an Open Forum meeting to discuss the current situation regarding the KC decision to suspend allocation of CC's for 2012 and to discuss the implications of the various matters that they want the GSD fraternity to resolve. The venue is the New Invention Methodist Hall, Willenhall WV12 5DR on Sat 21st Nov and the Open forum will commence at 1.30pm. A small cover charge will apply.
You will be aware that on the 18th July the KC informed the Breed clubs that they have declined to allocate CC's for 2012 until they have resolved various matters with the GSD fraternity. They have demanded that the Breed deals with the following Health issues which they allege the Breed suffers from before they consider the allocation of the CC's for 2012 again as follows;-
*Double Handling/Outside attraction
*Breed Conformation i.e Un-Soundness - Over angulation, Exaggerated Top Lines .
A meeting between the KC and the GSDP was held mid August to discuss the non-allocation of CCs 2012 and although this was a frosty meeting, it was agreed that the GSD Parnership would go back to the KC with the GSD Community's response.
The GSDP believes that the best way to respond to the KC is to solicit the views of all interested parties via an Open forum meeting where individuals attending will be given an opportunity to voice their opinion on how the GSD Partnership should respond to the KC's concerns on behalf of all the Breed Clubs and the GSD Community.
The Breed Clubs will debate their response prior to the Open Forum at the Breed Council meeting in the morning then from 1.30 coffee/tea etc will be available with a 2pm prompt start and a conclusion at 4.30/5pm.
This is your chance to air your views and be part of this Democratic response back to the KC
If you want to attend this Open Forum then
PLEASE RSVP by 15th November to the Breed Council Sec. Tel/Fax 01708 342194
e-mail : Sheila.rankin@dsl.pipex.com |
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Our breed is fully capable of doing what is done in Holland, and that is using the Kennel Club for our REGISTRATIONS, this will include "export pedigrees" and all matters relating to REGISTRATIONS. This will also provide the opportunity for those that wish to participate in Kennel Club licensed shows and events.
Our Breed should then, as in Holland, produce its own Pedigrees, which should contain ALL the information that WE determine they should contain. WE should also organise GSD Events under WUSV rules (as with the Britsh Sieger), such as REGIONAL EVENTS, agreeing which Club holds them, with Geographical and Date considerations. WE could also agree a system of POINTS for certain WINS at these events which could be "accumulated and totaled" for the award of "British Champion".
We could develop our GSD Breed Survey as a cornerstone of "accrediting our GSD for breeding" - and ensure that minimum requirements are met for ALL health Screening Tests, and for entry into our Shows, such as Micro-chipping and DNA Parentage Testing.
I will leave it their for now. Suffice to say that WE could do an outstanding job of looking after our GSD breeds FUTURE, if we followed this MODEL.
The "elected" representatives for our GSD breed have my views "loud and clear" - Am I prepared to become involved putting in the process of putting these views forward, YES! Am I prepared to invite Peter van Oirschot over from Holland too explain his countries system? YES! I am prepared to put my hand in my pocket for such a project? YES! I am prepared to write about it, Talk about it, and do something about it? YES! YES! YES! - now I await an invitation.
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David, what do you mean by you await an invitation? This IS your invitation, its an Open Forum - Open to everyone, ALL are invited, thus nobody is getting a PERSONAL invitation, why would anyone need one?
Best Regards
Sue |
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| An invitation to become involved with the implementation of my above proposals - by our elected leaders, when they agree to adopt this Progressive Organisational Plan (POP) - Our Breeds Future "genuinely" in Our Hands. |
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Aha Dave, I see, in that case I hope you get one. Indeed anyone with initiative and a willingness to roll up their sleeves and help do the word required to move the breed forward should all be invited to submit their idea's for adoption and then help implement them. How much work there will be to do will much depend upon the common consensus of opinion formed by the majority of those in attendance at the Open Forum, I suspect the workload could be huge, in which case it will take more than a handful of people to set it in motion. I would imagine many willing hands, knowledge, level heads and initiative will be needed in abundance. I surely feel this is a bit like Custers Last Stand folks, I truly believe its now or never, speak now or forever hold your peace.
Regards
Sue |
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I think David Payne's ideas for the future of our breed are very sound and exciting. Let us take this opportunity and make a huge difference to the future without bringing in personal agendas and personalities, our breed is bigger than us all. We should go to this meeting with an open mind, listen to each other with mutual respect and then decide on the RIGHT way forward for The German Shepherd Dog in the UK.
Helen Bibby
Silkenwood German Shepherds |
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| Sue, I'm glad you have laid it out in a format which includes going back to July 18th when the K.C. anounced their 4 items of concern. So am I right in thinking these items were never put to all B.C. member clubs and then discussed, and returned to the B.C. in a democratic normal procedure, for discussion with the K.C. If so, and it sounds like it will all be decided on Sat, 21st Nov, from a meeting in the morning by breed club reps, and possibly voted on in the afternoon by whoever decides to turn up for that meeting. If that is the case, any policy decided on may be put through by a small selected portion of all B.C. members, and anyone who happens to wonder in, thinking its a church meeting. The outcome may not be seen as Representative of the breed club membership. Sue, Please tell me my thinking is wrong. regards. Bill Owen. |
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C'mon Bill, that's a reasonable amount of time for most of us to make the effort to get there! We'll all be popping round yours for one of those steamy showers after and a shot or two of whisky!
If we want to make a difference, we've got to be there... this is for everyone, isn't it?
Who decides who's "in charge" of what? I mean, do we have a vote on that, or is it a done deal, so to speak? |
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| What concerns me is the 'time limits' that may be placed on speakers from the audience, if I chose to speak on my ideas for the future and I need five to ten minutes to reasonably explain them, and some minutes for questions/answers to ensure reasonable understanding, and I am not going to be given them, I would sooner stay silent. Perhaps this is exactly what the GSD Partnership and some of those attending would prefer. |
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It looks like there is going to be about 3 hours allocated for discussion, maybe anyone who has a specific idea to discuss like David should notify the 'chairperson' and ask for 10 minutes or whatever, I would certainly like to hear about Davids idea and what they do in Holland.
I think we must view this as a positive meeting and not start looking at the negatives. This is an OPEN meeting, open to anyone and if you want to take part and participate please make the time to go, if you dont want to go then please dont come on this database with negative postings about it (I am not referring to you David). If you really cant make the meeting I believe there will be a questionaire to download from the breed council website where you can make your views known on that. I am sure that the future of the breed will not be decided at this one meeting but it is a good starting point and I think we should all do our utmost to support this meeting.
JMHO |
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Hi All,
Davids sounds the more logical idea, and i think it would be good for our breed over all, leaving the KC for our registrations and our Export pedigree's only!
CC' don't mean a great deal anymore.. the grading of your dog is far better and more worthy. (thats just my opinion)
And minimum requirements should be met for ALL health Screening Tests, and for entry into our Shows, such as Micro-chipping and DNA Parentage Testing, and the hips and elbows after 12 months of age it is a start to the program and the way to go.
Everyone can meet these requirements, and most good breeders alreadt are.
And for those who still want to be able to gain CC' Davids was a good idea and worth concidering.
WE could agree a system of POINTS for certain WINS at events which could be "accumulated and totaled" for the award of "British Champion".
But like Sue said we would need a lot of people involved and the work load would be tremendous and where would we start and with who would we start. 
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With all due respect to everyone, please read the post at the start of this thread again. The ONLY items for discussion at this particular meeting is the three items maked with an * asterisk. These are the Health Issues the mentioned in the Kennel Club letter of 23rd July. These are the Health Issues the Kennel Club are DEMANDING WE NEED ACKNOWLEGE and ADDRESS BEFORE they are prepared to re-consider allocating CC's to our Breed in 2012. These are the three issues we ALL NEED TO GATHER TOGETHER TO GIVE OUR OPINIONS ON. These items and ONLY these. How long does it take to give an opinion on these? I can give you mine now if you like and I AM PREPARED TO PUT IT INTO PRINT AND SIGN MY NAME TO IT.
1) Q - Do I think Double Handling is a Problem - A - It could be. Q- Do I think we should stop it? A - I think that is an absolute impossibility. Q - What do I think we should do about it? A - I think we should present the KC with plans for every Breed Club to set up a running area like is done at the British Sieger. We run the BSieger with the KC's blessing therefore they have already allowed for a precedent to be set here. Q - Do I think the KC will wear this? A - NO, I very much doubt it but they are the ones making Double Handling a Health Issue of which we can provide a solution. Quite frankly if they dont like it for me they can stuff it, because I for one am not going to sign my name to something I believe will be impossible to deliver and when you consider how long double handling has been an issue, the answere is simple, we never be able to do it, so to tell the KC we will stop / eliminate it or even suggest we will try to is hypocritical and I'm no hypocrite, not even to get CC's back.
2) Q - Do I think we have a problem with unsoundness and Overangulation ? A - Yes. Over the past decade or so the desire for more hind angulation, when clearly as Nem Elliott used to say, why want more of anything when ENOUGH is ENOUGH, I can see unsoundness in hocks becoming more prevelant. In order to stop it becoming an epidemic we need to address it now. Actually the Germans already started to seriously address this problem at their own Sieger Show this year and some judges have address it here too. All we need to do now is ask our judges to continue to make a conservative effort to try, where ever possible, to promote the sounder animal.
3. Q - Do I think we have a problem with exaggerated back lines? A - SIMPLE NO ! At least WE promoting the correct Internation type of German Shepherd dont have a problem with back lines.
CONTINUED BELOW |
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CONTINUED FROM ABOVE
In a nutshell, answere to all three is 1. Double handling will continue but we can offer a solution. 2. Is something we have already acknowledged and is now being addressed world wide. 3. No, the International type of German Shepherd does not have a back line problem. Once they have a collective mandate from the GSD Fraternity (and remember YOU HAVE ALL BEEN INVITED so dont moan if you cant be bothered to turn up to be part of the decision process), the GSDP will then go back to deliver OUR COLLECTIVE decsion to the KC. Once we know the outcome of the KC decision other meetings will need to be held to discuss all other initiatives, such as those now offered by David. In the meantime nothing is stopping these initiatives been developed and fine tuned so they are all ready to be up and running as soon as required. This IS A VERY IMPORTANT TIME FOR OUR BREED, what is DECIDED NOW could/will effect our Breeds future for all time, will we grasp this golden opportunity to Advance or not? ONLY YOU CAN DECIDE and on Sat 21st November you will be given the opportunity to be part of that decision process.
Regards
Sue
NB - I am also of the understanding a Questionaire is to be drawn up and be available PRIOR to the meeting. This WILL NOT be a SECRET, it WILL requIre your COMMITTMENT, it will request you PLACE YOUR NAME ON IT.
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Sue B
Quick question Sue B, is there room if hundreds turned up, though I know its unlikely.Are you saying its an open forum for anyone who has bred a litter or the select few from breed clubs ? |
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HOWEVER, all that being said, if we can get a common consensus of opinion passed quickly on the INITIAL AGENDA (i.e the Health Issues the KC demand we address) then I am absolutely certain the Chairperson will not want to waste the opportunity of discussing as many other things as possible whilst so many GENUINE ENTHUSIASTS are gathered together in the same room.
Like Carol said above, we have 3 hours of room hire time allocated to this one meeting. I am certain no-one will want to waste it. So the sooner you decide on your answeres to the FIRST PART, the sooner we will be able to MOVE ON TO OTHER (possibly) MORE EXCITING THINGS. 
Regards
Sue |
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For people to address the issues raised by the KENNEL CLUB, it will be MOST HELPFUL for them to know our breeds "FUTURE PROSPECTS" if we, as seems likely, cannot reach agreement with the KC on these issues.
To make a decision without opening up realistic and achievable alternatives, will have us once more "???? kissing" the Kennel Club and its fundamentally flawed "accredited breeders scheme". If that happens many will walk away from our show scene, and all that embraces.
Exciting and challenging future prospects for our GSD breed here in the UK, one which allows us to double handle, promote our international type, exhibit under the SV/WUSV/FCI GSD Breed Standard, have our Breed Survey at the core of our breeds development, have our health issues properly listed and prioritised, have our dogs identities clear and precise, have our dogs pedigrees authenticated by DNA parentage scheme, have our Breed Surveyors playing an expanded and developing role within our breed, have far more National and International co-operation for our breed and breeders, etc etc. Whilst having all registration matters dealt with by the Kennel Club, which gives the option of exhibiting and participating in KC shows and schemes. THIS WILL HAVE A MAJOR IMPACT ON HOW PEOPLE RESPOND TO THE KENNEL CLUBS ISSUES on the 21st November 2009.
The last thing our GSD breed needs is to go "cap in hand" to the Kennel Club, like the Bulldog breed.
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OK, getting back to the thread.
1, Q can and will the double handling be stopped!, A, Q For me NO and it will alway's be part of the GSD show scene it has gone on for all the 30 years that i can remember, i believe it can be controlled has mentioned by sue above.
2, Q Un-Soundness. A. Q, Yes i agree their is a problem with unsoundness, and i think it should be addressed, which is already being done so.
3, Q Over angulation, Exaggerated Top Lines.. A Q, we have GSDs with the correct sloping toplines which are correct in everyway and i have never seen a problem it the toplines, this is just another excuse from the KC, next they will be adding to the list SOFT EARS!!!
I will be very supprised if anything is achieved in November, the KC will not bow down to anything, this is what they want, and if they dont get it well up OURs, they know we still need to register our litters they wont lose out on revenue in any way or form. |
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I prefer to be optimistic about this forum... this is our best chance, maybe our last chance, to forge ahead. If the KC refuse to compromise... so be it; we'll have been completely reasonable and made every effort to meet them half way. If need be... we go it alone, but there has to be UNITY!
Wouldn't it be bloody marvellous, if we could all stand together, UNITED and civil for the betterment of our breed? We can do this! |
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‘Respond to the KC’s concerns’! What about the concerns of the GSD community in the UK? Payne is right about this. Everyone involved in GSDs in the UK knows that until we have something comparable to the German system the breed in the UK will not be treated seriously. It is difficult to see how that can change if we continue to allow the KC to regulate our breed.
To have our meeting based on the agenda of the KC would be big mistake. Yes, we can respond to them but it should be on our agenda, not theirs. Congratulations to the organisers of this meeting. There needs to be debate about it. But, please, not by debating with the KC on their narrow terms. You tie one hand behind your back if you do that.
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I say, let any ultimate division lie at the KC's door... not ours! We should be seen to be being reasonable. The KC have already shown themselves in their true "dictator" colours, more than once where we're concerned, let them take the flack!
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I say let the KC keep their CC', they just want us over a barrel. CC are nothing let them keep them and we has breed enthusiasts can arrange our own top honors!!
We can arrange our Health matters and put them in line too we don't need the KC to do all what David talked about in is post above.
All our breed clubs can exist without the KC, the clubs put in all the hard work to get the shows up and running they organize everything themselves and then need the the say so from the KC for it to take place.
The KC do nothing the clubs do everything, Its the KC who stop us bringing in decent judges from over sea's with their stupid ruling, if you are cleared in your own country to a high standard to judge then this should be good enough for our country!!! but not in the eye's of the KC...Lol
Like David said we should start looking after our own breed and bring things into line ourselves, it will be hard work, but maybe then more countries will take the UK serious, we need to get into line with the likes of Germany instead of pussy footing about.
Their is plenty of people with the knowlege to make this happen we just need to make a stand and start making it happen.
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I don't disagree with you Blake, but I strongly disagree with us being seen to be anything less than reasonable! The KC started all this crapola... let them take the blame.
Having been on a committee for several years, I am all too aware of the work that goes in, however, it pales to insignificance when you consider what will be required if / when we go it alone, which is one of the reasons we need to have unity and civility between us; this will be a mammoth task that will need serious organisation. I have already offered my services to assist. |
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Do not over-estimate the work required to implement the "Dutch System" here in the UK.
It should be quite straight forward, and I am sure we will receive all the help, advice and support we need from the Dutch and the Germans and others through the WUSV.
A Challenge? YES! - Achievable? Definitely! - Exciting? Absolutely!
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Arbeiter, to answer your question this meeting is open to ALL, contact Sheila Rankin to confirm you are attending so they have an idea of numbers.
Helen Bibby |
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Qabru.
Thank you Helen for the information, your pedigree and manners are obviously on a higher level than Sue B's. |
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Arbeiter
Sorry , didnt see your question until Helen had already replied to it and thought that would be sufficient,.
Had I realised you were so thick you needed telling twice I would of course have repeated the reply for you!!!!
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SueB.
It's been noted on here before that your understanding of English is poor, ie: that don't undestand the written word too well,but my request to you was well before Helen replied.It would seem that your eyesight is poor as well because you posted directly under my request and it would have been impossible to miss. |
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Here here arbeiter. It would seem Sue B has been to the school of David Payne of rudeness in her reply. Was there any need to be so rude in suggesting arbeiter being thick? If anyone is thick here darling it's you Sue. In fact, you come across as being quite dizzy and dumb IMO.
T |
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Another two morons for the Database. Yikes, some of you people dont deserve anybody keeping you informed of anything. In future I will keep my knowledge to myself, then perhaps you morons can all have conversations with each other. My, my wont that be interesting, not ! lol
Sue b |
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For heaven's sake arbieter, look at the times on the posts... it's painfully obvious that you and Sue were posting at the same time!
Please check before leaping to conclusions, the above happens frequently! We all need to be "pulling" in the same direction, not bitching about trivia... especially now! |
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This forum/meeting in my opinion is long overdue and I hope is controlled by a strong chairman, we have some very important decisions to make in a short period of time, perhaps a single meeting will not be sufficient. The problem I foresee is allowing an open forum, that will possibly allow the inexperienced attendees to sidetrack the meeting, just like every sensible post on this forum.
Dave Middleton |
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| I foresee the exact same problem David. |
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If there are any problems on the day ( perceived or otherwise ) should we not try to alleviate them now, CHAOS is the last thing we need at this very important meeting, which could just be the stepping stone that we all desire to bring solidarity back to our breed, as for needing a strong chairman!!! i am quite sure that we will have one or two people present who will be able to debate with clarity, common sense and intelligence.
Regards.
Paul Rattigan.
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I am also quite sure lots of people present will be able to debate with clarity, common sense and intelligence, not necessarily about the subject matter.
Dave Middleton |
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Hey mr. sensitive , i had you down as one of my nominees for debate, but i might have to relegate you to one of my subs, and you might not like that when you see who else is on that list. See you there Dave, regards to Wendy.
Paul.
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Hi Paul,
Just expressing my opinion, nothing will be achieved if the meeting is allowed to get off the subject. Hope that doesn't relegate me to your subs list. Wendy said hi, she will see you their and maybe she will take me if I stop being sensitive.
Dave |
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Hi Dave M, David P and Paul,
I understand your concerns, most of which I share, albeit perhaps to a lesser degree. However of much more concern to me would have been not to let Democracy prevail by imposing some sort of restriction on those allowed to attend. Who had the authority to decide such restrictions and how would you prioritise what they should be? Only judges of the breed? Only those who exhibit (or at least have exhibited in the past 2yrs). Only those who breed litters? Or any two out of these three?
Not so easy when you actually think about it is it? Do those who work hard dedicating their time and efforts to sit on Committee's running shows etc have more rights than those who only want to turn up and take all the spoils? Do the judges have more rights than the exhibitors or they have more rights than the breeders? Not so easy when you actually think about it is it ???
As was said earlier in this post, there will be a questionaire that all attendee's will be expected to complete and put their name to. That alone could curtail some of those who were otherwise intending to turn up (possibly the ambigious, nameless, fence sitting, non committal morons who regulary appear on this database for example). or maybe even Pencils Big 4 (whoever they might be) lol.
Seriously though, I would hope that the only restriction required prior to being allowed to take the mike and address the floor would be to have signed a completed questionaire, which should be handed in upon arrival with each person the being given a number which allows them access to the mike. With an Agenda consisting of only three items, each one a demand from the Kennel Club which for the purpose of this Open Forum and gaining a common consensus from those assembled, have to be treated in the form of three questions, it is difficult (for me anyways) to see how it could possibly turn into chaos. Unless of course we have people who REFUSE TO STICK TO THE AGENDA or/and we dont have a strong chairperson. I have in my mind who I believe should chair this meeting and believe who I believe it should be is the RIGHT PERSON FOR THE JOB and I can assure you should this person chair the meeting there WONT BE CHAOS, WAVERING OFF THE AGENDA or FALTERING FROM THE CAUSE.
With luck the meeting will encompass all those interested enough in the future of the breed who want to attend and if people stick to the agenda the first part should reach a quick conclusion giving us all time to go onto discussing peoples ideas and intiatives and if the meeting is so well supported, brimming with so many good idea's that there isnt time to deal with them all and another meeting has to be called , WELL FOLKS I CALL THAT SUCCESS, DONT YOU!? What a COOP in for once APATHY FAILS TO PREVAIL, I for one will happily say ROLL ON THE NEXT MEETING !!!
Regards
Sue b |
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sue b:
Really do you expect us to believe you don't know who the present top four kennels are( though actually its more like 3 now, because the north east connection seems to have been pretty quiet lately ). Surely even you can collate results etc etc and work out who they are.After all you seem on here to set yourself up as all knowing ! Another way that might help you to work it out is to notice who is absent from any suggestions of signing up to various " POLES " that have appeared on here recently.
But there again as you look no further than the end of your garden ( people do exist beyond it ) it presumably will be a struggle for you. |
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Hi Sue
Do you have any more information regarding the proposed questionnaire please.
What will be included?
Could it be made available prior to the meeting ?.
also, will an official agenda be available in advance?
Regards Dennis Bibby
Silkenwood German Shepherds
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Hi Dennis
Not sure what questions will be on the questionaire but understand it will be available to download from BAGSD and GSD LEAGUE websites by the end of next week (though would like to think it would be offered for display on other websites too. Hopefully all Club Sec's will be sent a copy of it so they can distribute it to any Club Member who requests one. The more that are completed the better providing it carries the name and signature of the person who completed it.
As for what will be on the Agenda for the meeting, again to my knowledge it will consist only of the three things the KC covered in their letter of 23rd July which were highlighted in this threads opening post. Anything after that would have to come under AOB which providing people keep to the agend topics there should be time to disguss other peoples intiatives, such as those already expressed here by Dave Payne for example.
So, to answere your questions here, Yes the questionaire will be availlable before the meeting and the Agenda for the Open Forum is, as already mentioned, is arguably already in the public domain as highlighted above i.e (My initial post on this thread was copied from the paperwork distributed by the BC Sec on behalf of the GSDP when sending out Agenda for November BC Meeting), albeit I realise not in sole Agenda fashion at this point.
Hope this explains what you needed to know Dennis. See you there (hopefully).
All the Best
Sue
Pencil - Sorry I dont know who YOU consider the Four Top Kennels are and for that matter neither does anyone else, so please enlighten us. No? Too committal for you , now there's a surprise !! lol
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Sue, don't speak for everyone else saying they dont know who the top four are. I myself know who they are and it was very easy to work out. It comes as no surprise to me that you however have no idea. Dumb and dizzy as ever you are Sue
T |
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Hi Sue
Thanks for the information. We will see you there.
Regards Dennis |
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| Who are your top 4 then Jago, or are you just Pencils side kick with no more committal than he has? That will be a Yes then !! lol |
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The questionnaire will apparently form the basis of the GSD Partnerships response to the Kennel Clubs three points that the KC believe impinge on the health of the GSD. I will fill in a questionnaire and return it.
The GSD Breed Council have already listened and observed a GSD Partnership presentation at their last meeting and endorsed the GSD Partnerships proposal to "embrace" the fundamentally flawed KC accredited breeders scheme, with, for example the BC GSD Survey Scheme as a possible accolade.
I want no part in that approach with the Kennel Clubs accredited breeders scheme.
Therefore I see no point in my attending the Forum of the 21st November. My response to the KC's 3 health points is already published, and my vision for the future of our GSD breed here in the UK is also already published. I strongly advocate the introduction of the Dutch GSD system into the UK, which includes continuing with all registration matters being done by the Kennel Club.
Like many others, I will not support developments I fundamentally disagree with, and like others, If the GSD Partnership continue along the road of embracing the Kennel Clubs fundamentally flawed accredited breeders scheme, as central to our GSD breeds future here within the UK, I will have no part in it.
It should be remembered that the number of GSD folk, including GSD breeders, who do not exhibit their dogs are the vast majority, probably in excess of 90%. Many past exhibitors have joined their ranks, no doubt many current exhibitors will also join their ranks.
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My word Sue, you are actually more dumber than I thought you where. It's not a case of who my top four are, it's WHO the top four are which obviously, you being as dumb and dizzy as you are cannot work that one out. Well, I am not going to tell you. You can have a go at working it out for yourself, an accomplishment so to speak. Will probably take you an age to do it given your stupidity.
T |
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I will PM anyone I wish to ask for any further info on this and I advise others to do the same. This constant bitching (nothing there to help our breed) and name calling is nasty, childish and one of the reasons some decent people have "left" the showring. |
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After Reading the Posts above and the problems the UK GSD people have i can see why two different bodies who both want to rule the roost none will give way even if some points of one are better for the future of the German Shepherd Dog in the UK
That is typical English Bullshit . Typical British attitude i want to be in charge and i am not giving way to anyone
Even the people on here cannot agree so i think the actual forum will finish up in a shouting match
Plus i am grateful that my interest in the German Shepherd dog does not extend to the Show World reading the Threads on here i could never imagine how many Experts there are in the Show dog world and how nasty people can be
plus the fact it also must incorporate the Working side as well in the two bodies and it certainly shows there with the utterly dismal performance of the British team in the recent WUSV, Reason why i guess they cannot work together and it certainly showed
Steve1 |
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| A very good summary steve. Most will still fail to see it. |
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" Therefor i see no point in my attending the Forum" lol. Oh please David i beg you do come, we need you, the breed needs you, where will we go without you to guide us, after all we are all so stupid. Is that what you are looking for? Didn't get your personal invite so you want everyone to beg you? Dream on Davey boy, again i hate to burst your bubble but you won't be missed, NOBODY wants a dictator.
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bazza: pencil: Jago: all of these are TROLLS.
Trolls are sad people.
Trolls disrupt a message board which gives them the illusion of power,
Trols stalk a strong person, this allows them to think they are strong, too.
For trolls, any response is 'recognition'; they are unable to distinguish between irritation and admiration; their ego grows directly in proportion to the response, regardless of the form or content of that response.
Trolls, rather surprisingly, dispute this, claiming that it's a game or joke; this merely confirms the diagnosis; how sad do you have to be to find such mind-numbingly trivial time wasting to be funny?
Trolls are cowards; they'll usually post just enough to get an argument going, then sit back and count the responses (Yes, that's what they do!).
Trolls rarely answer a direct question - although they frequently accuse others of not answering a direct question. They cannot, if asked to, justify their twaddle - so they develop a fine line in missing the point.
Trolls are sad, lonely folk, with few social skills; they rarely make what most people would consider intelligent conversation.
Trolls are nothing without attention,
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You seem to have an excellent take on TROLLS, you know that old saying Davey, "It takes one to know one", lmfao.
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Today
We mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who
has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was,
since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape. He
will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as:
Knowing when to come in out of the rain; Why the early bird gets the
worm; Life isn't always fair; and maybe it was my fault.
Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend
more than you can earn) and reliable strategies (adults, not children,
are in charge).
His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well-intentioned but
overbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a 6-year-old boy
charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended
from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired for
reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition.
Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the
job that they themselves had failed to do in disciplining their unruly
children.
It declined even further when schools were required to get parental
consent to administer sun lotion or an Aspirin to a student; but could
not inform parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an
abortion.
Common Sense lost the will to live as the churches became businesses;
and criminals received better treatment than their victims.
Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourse
lf from a burglar in your own home and the burglar could sue you for assault
Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to
realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in
her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.
Common Sense was preceded in death, by his parents, Truth and Trust, by
his wife, Discretion, by his daughter, Responsibility, and by his son, Reason.
He is survived by his 4 stepbrothers;
I Know My Rights
I Want It Now
Someone Else Is To Blame
I'm A Victim
Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone.
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Sophie what a profound and true statement.
Do you mind if I copied it and used it sometime in the future (when the need will arise!)
thank you in antisipation
Frank |
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Hi Soph, and I would hasten to add he was also preceeded in death by his neice, Integrity and his nephew, Respect.
Sue x |
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Trotters123 feel free to use as you see fit. It came to me years ago as an email and I thought just how well it fitted this occasion.
Sue B - you are spot on with that. Respect died many years ago! There starts the problem.
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sue b.
your so right sue b: respect for our countries inland reveue returns-integrity, as in entering one's own club show that one's secretary of.dignity or one's lack of, as in I don't care about the Gsd show scene ( " I have walked away ") dignity in reversing one's ideals as soon as a dog seems to be doing well.
Still- Aunty loss of memory seems to be ok. And Uncle we know best is flourishing it would seem.
Videx-The troll on Merlin BBC 1 Saturday look more like you than me-and no mistake. |
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But unfortunately his illegitimate children are alive and well and come on here often under their anonymous names and spew there rubbish and stir the shit
jim h |
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Aint that the truth Jim h. Will we see you at the meeting?
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Like you jim h and a few others here, with a kennel in Scotland recently? What's wrong were they competition for your puppy sales??? lol.
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| pencil, Jago, bazza: the TROLLS - write bullshit and eat horse shit |
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Tsk tsk Dave, you just cant help harping on about yourself again can you? Every given opportunity you have to try and stroke your over deflated ego. Grow up little man, just because you didn't get a personal invite to this meeting and no one here is pleading with you to come along. As Bazza said and well put 'NOBODY wants a dictator'. Least of all a jumped up little condescending twat like you.
T |
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And we leave it to you to speak the bullshit!!! Dave, we know your long standing dream has been shattered by not getting an invite to the meeting, that dream being to be voted the 1st breed warden in the uk!!!! Get over it, never going to happen, Brits can't stand dictatorship. What a nightmare for the breed if that dream/fantasy came true!!!!!
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| tut tut, the little horse shit eating Trolls are getting a bit shitty - must be past their "dung time" |
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| thank yu sue for informing us of this fortcoming forum,which unfortunately i will not be able to attend unless anyone from the maidstone area is attending who may be able to give me a lift.if possible i would like to know if i can get a questionaire to fill in and return to shelia to give my views.why oh why do certain people come on these forums and start bitching when it isnt necessary.all the posts were stating valid comments etc and then crertain persons come on ,whom i,ve had no problems with on other forums. and start causing friction.please Bazza,Pencil,Yago dont reduce this one to a farce just cos you,ve got a problem with David Payne.let the gsd people who want the kc to address the important issues like all gsd puppies that are to be KC Reg.be from parents that have the relevant health tests only and not all and sundry.i know David is a bit outspoken and at times is IMO very rude,but he has the breed interest at heart.i am all in favour of his new proposal.i quite like the idea of being able to show at both the KC shows and in the new proposwed ones if they get off the ground maybe with a new puppy in the near future.i wish i could be there .on 21st,will try but cannot promise.excuse any spelling mistakes.brain works faster than my 1 finger typing.good luck anyway.carole spelman RHEINMEISTER GSDS. |
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Dont know who will be there from your area in Maidstone Carole but perhaps someone reading this, who intends to attend and knows they live near you will offer you a lift. Otherwise, Yes you will be able to get a questionaire in time to complete it and send it to Sheila prior to the meeting if you dont manage to arrange a lift.
As soon as I am aware that the questionaires are available I will come back to this thread to inform you all of where to obtain one.
Best Regards
Sue |
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Hi sue its a 10 hour round trip for me but if i can get a few people to come with me to share the driving and expences then yes i will be there so anyone wanting to go from scotland let me know we can meet up at abbington and leave from there
jim h |
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Hi Jim, perhaps you could contact the secs of your Scottish Breed Clubs to ask them if anyone is going down as club reps to attend the BC meeting beforehand. If so, then maybe you can cadge a lift with them, I am sure the club would appreciate the share in fuel costs.
Regards
Sue |
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i am nothing like you bazza anything i say or print is done under my own name i dont hide i have the courage of my convictions and if you and your ilk would do the same that would be one huge step to improving the breed in this country for it surely would stop all the shit spreading because you would be accountable for what you write and say
jim h |
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Hi Jim,
I really don't want to miss this one. Trying to work out the whole travel - logistics of it. It's a 16 hour round trip for me........ |
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Hi Sue
Have you had had any more information on the questionnaire and the agenda for this vital event.
Regards Dennis
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Bumped for a purpose!!
Hi All , I have bumped this up as some have been asking for the Venue and time of the meeting. If you all check the beginning of this thread I included all the information you needed in my intial posting.
OR
For your convenience I have repeated it below.
Regards
Sue
IMPORTANT NOTICE TO ALL OWNERS, BREEDERS, JUDGES AND ENTHUSIASTS OF THE GSD
The GSD Partnership formed from representatives of the GSD Breed Council, the BAGSD and the GSD League of GB, invite all interested parties to attend an Open Forum meeting to discuss the current situation regarding the KC decision to suspend allocation of CC's for 2012 and to discuss the implications of the various matters that they want the GSD fraternity to resolve. The venue is the New Invention Methodist Hall, Willenhall WV12 5DR on Sat 21st Nov and the Open forum will commence at 1.30pm. A small cover charge will apply.
You will be aware that on the 18th July the KC informed the Breed clubs that they have declined to allocate CC's for 2012 until they have resolved various matters with the GSD fraternity. They have demanded that the Breed deals with the following Health issues which they allege the Breed suffers from before they consider the allocation of the CC's for 2012 again as follows;-
*Double Handling/Outside attraction
*Breed Conformation i.e Un-Soundness - Over angulation, Exaggerated Top Lines .
A meeting between the KC and the GSDP was held mid August to discuss the non-allocation of CCs 2012 and although this was a frosty meeting, it was agreed that the GSD Parnership would go back to the KC with the GSD Community's response.
The GSDP believes that the best way to respond to the KC is to solicit the views of all interested parties via an Open forum meeting where individuals attending will be given an opportunity to voice their opinion on how the GSD Partnership should respond to the KC's concerns on behalf of all the Breed Clubs and the GSD Community.
The Breed Clubs will debate their response prior to the Open Forum at the Breed Council meeting in the morning then from 1.30 coffee/tea etc will be available with a 2pm prompt start and a conclusion at 4.30/5pm.
This is your chance to air your views and be part of this Democratic response back to the KC
If you want to attend this Open Forum then PLEASE RSVP by 15th November to the Breed Council Sec.
Tel/Fax 01708 342194 e-mail : Sheila.rankin@dsl.pipex.com
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