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Classified: ex z jirkova dvora daughter for sale
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The most extreme? (120 replies)
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I'd like to see pics of the most extreme American showline german shepherds (any butts touching the ground while the dog is still "standing"?) and the most extreme west German showline (can you use the back as an outline to draw a half-circle?)
Also, any pics of extreme under-angulated dogs? |
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| Interesting request. We will see what you get. |
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http://www.gsdca.org/GSDReviewed/kbitches/KenDelaineCountryJewel.htm
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Wow the dog in that link is TERRIBLE. Thanks for posting. I keep a collection of photos that I affectionately refer to as the "GSD Freak Show". That one's been added to the collection.
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Mirasmom,
The dog in the picture looks that awful because the "handler" is pushing HARD on the right inner side of the dog.
WHY do handlers think they must do this?? There is no need to push so much on any dog!
It creates a horrible picture of a topline and a terrible impression on the rear angles.
jmo,
Robin |
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WOW is all I can say about the dog in the link...even the front legs....would that be an example of soft pasterns? I've seen that on American breds before.
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OH MY GOD. That dogs back is a bit too sloped. A pathetic example fo a german showline.
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This looks deformed!
I'm sorry but this is just not right. How can this dog be expected to do anything looking like this.
Frank |
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SchBabe, glad to know I'm not the only one who keeps a flie like that. Mine is called the Ugly Dog file. I also have another file containing dogs I like.
That puppy above is in my files, too. Here's a couple more examples of German Showlines:
Little too much looseness in the joints her for my liking. I hate to see the showlines becoming hock walkers like their American counterparts.
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Horrible example of a a broken topline
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(can you use the back as an outline to draw a half-circle?) OH, YES!!
A Czech female with very poor structure (LOOK at those pasterns!)
Finally, the dog that started my ugly dog file...This male was for sale on the database for many months. I used to shudder every time I saw the photo. He was eventually sold to someone in VIetnam. I do hope they're not using him for breeding! He's the poster child for that often-repeated criticism of the showlines resembling: "hyenas with chow faces"!
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I appreciate this discussion. I learn even more looking at what is wrong in these extreme examples. Can someone outline the areas to focus on:
topline
hocks
pasterns
tail set
anything else. Now, it would be great to see some video's of "ugly" dogs in motion. hard to find I am sure. |
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Rik, unfortunately, I think I can top Xeph's entry...
Here are a couple of American dogs for you. The black and tan dog is a UKC champion!
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I think these two are related, or at least from the same kennel Above: narrow head, snipey muzzle, poor bone, appears undersized, weak pasterns.
Below: HORRIBLE collie-like head, with muzzle far too long and narrow. Weak pasterns, oversized ears, very long upper thigh. Too much white on chest. Dog needs a good brushing, too.
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Just look at those dropped pasterns! The poor dog! Hocks must have very weak ligaments too, as you can tell by the hock being flat on the floor. Neck is directly over shoulders, which is fairly typical with American showlines. |
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The black & tan one is horrendous. Just look at the hock. Oh how painful it must be for the dog to walk. Neck right on top of shoulders. Disgraceful. Doesnt that make them just face one way? Wouldnt it make them turning their necks painful?
The black one looks like it is a cross between a border collie, because of it's muzzle. It's too long & narrow. Just look at it's back leg. Probably weak ligaments and hips. Terrible hock!
I have seen the first one Sunsilver many times in pictures & websites. It is horrendous. Just look at that overangulated topline & weird back. Muzzle is too narrow.
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I want to know what makes the "handlers" think that the horrific "stand" pictures do the individual dogs any justice??
I understand that some of the examples (dogs) are not great examples of the GSD breed American or German period.....
However;......the people "behind" the pictures should be shot!
Who does that??...good God!...for what reason?! Who told these idiots that the dogs looked "proper" or even "good" in their positioning?....
Blame it on genetics, breeders.....but don't forget to blame the people involved with the picture itself!....ie...photographer & handler!
Venting...sorry.
Robin
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I'm not ashamed to admit that there are many American showline dogs I DO like, but yes, the link I posted shows one of the most extreme dogs I have ever seen. Doesn't matter how she's stacked, her proportions are so all over the place she's not going to look correct.
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Robin, yes, the extreme stacks don't do these dogs any favours, but a good dog can still shine in a poor stack, as the above picture shows.
Alexander Maly Lumpik, who recently came up for sale on the PDB. He may never earn a V in conformation, but I love his keen expression, nice, straight, well-knit back, and strong upper thigh.
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Sunsilver,
He has too many "faults" for me personally........upper-arm, croup, body length, brisket proportions & length to height proportions, shoulder lay..... just to name a few.
Is he a "handsome" dog?......YES...I think so.....but when you compare Elliot to him,....no comparison "structurally".
I appreciate "handsome" dogs too, and I too have a "type" that I like....but it doesn't always mean they are "structurally" correct.
I can appreciate everyone's particular "type" of dog of course!
Robin
I just really hate bad "stack" pics.......... |
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Robin, do you think his croup is too steep? I agree on the other fautts, but I think his croup is good, if you try to ignore the poor stack. He's just one of those dogs that 'caught my eye', but obviously has less than ideal conformation. I have trouble explaining why I like him, other than what I've said above. I think it's his attitude, which shows in his eyes and expression.
I agree, if you're trying to sell your dog, or show it off, there is no excuse for a sloppy stack, or...even worse, IMO, a dirty, poorly groomed dog or handler.
What NOT to wear when showing your dog...this is why some people NEED to hire professional handlers!
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Sunsiver,
That made me laugh with all my heart, God bless you. |
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
I cannot laugh any louder or harder without having a heart attack!!!!
OMG!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
ok...let me try.....the dog's croup is short & steep.....look hard at the position & length of croup,...then look where the tail set is also.......short, steep.
OMG!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I keep scrolling up to the picture!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! |
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Sunsilver,
Thank you for that laugh!! I have seen that, AND the many dogs from Ken Delaines in the PNW. Bottom line: THESE images are what DROVE me away from the AKC ring to the German bloodlines!  |
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| Dang, I think I know that gal. |
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Rik,
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! shameless! |
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| Wellll, he used to show AKC...he COULD have met her! You'd never forget a face...er...behind like that! |
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SS, I guess I'm a glutton for punishment as I'm showing my V rated "German" girl in an AKC show in a couple of weeks.
I am going to advoid going near the terrier ring at all cost. 
Rik |
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Wow! Good luck to you! Let us know how it goes! Are you showing her yourself, or hiring a pro handler?
And yeah, stay away from the terrier ring....  |
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| Sunsilver, thanks for adding to my collection. I'm happy to be an equal-opportunity freak show collector... that Czech female looks horrible in that picture, like she's got no legs. Is this the new "low-rider" type? Gawd I hope that is some trick of the camera, or did someone mate Titus z PS with a Corgi? LOL |
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| I think it's the Non-sporting ring you need to avoid. Although, maybe she had an entry for the Terrier group but when she stood up, she couldn't find the dog! ROFLMAO!!! |
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LOL!
[click] [saves to picture file] |
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GSDtravels, you are correct. I just keep thinking that if that thing were to go off, it could wipe out everything between there and the wall.
Rik
SS, right now I'm planning on using a handler. This could change as she gets pretty diffulcult to manage when I get out of sight.
Originaly, I was going to do it myself, but she is so comfortable with me that "moving" out is not much of a priority. We have a few days to work on it. |
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| ROFL Rik, it might even take the walls out! Just make sure you're standing FACING her and not her other end! |
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ALL OF YOU ARE SHAMLESS!!!!
hahahahahaha! OMG...I'm still laughing! |
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How about extreme Cow-Hocked? This is a $1,200 German Showline.
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| LOL, loved that cartoon GSDtravels. Mike, isn't that just pathetic? |
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wow..hold old is puppy?...whats the pedigree?....gotta see the 2 legs together to actually say "cow-hocked"....maybe it's over-angulated and at gangely age??, also, could just be termed.. "close in the rear".......
Do you have any other pictures?
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Does anyone else have photos of handlers caught in bad moments??? I need another GOOD LAUGH ...
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The risk of posting such photos is that somewhere, somebody not only owns a hinge-backed or hock-walking GSD... but they LOVE their purty doggies... and even worse... genuinely believe that theirs is the *correct* GSD!
Oh the horror of daring to call anyone's dog "incorrect"! No matter how hideous... somebody, somewhere will believe this is "the way they ought to be"! Ha!
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I once made the mistake of sending a PM to a proud owner of an ASS (American Show Shepherd) and had the audacity to call it a "hock-walker". Gasp! The vitriol from her response was positively blistering which is why I wear rubber gloves when I type.
This lovely beauty wins my award for the most extreme washed out black pigment in a dog that looks like it may have been bred from G$$ (German $how $hepherd) lines. And of course, he was posted on the PDB as "for stud". Of course. LOL
Alright I'm going to stop posting before somebody sees their own dog in my secret files and really gets poopy pants.
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im amazed the dog can stand that way on its own
john |
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Why would you send someone a PM and tell them their dog is "hock walker"? Even if you don't appreciate what is being bred, why go out of your way to alert an owner??? Can't say I'd blame them for blistering you. |
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Shelly, I have a photo of that male's female counterpart. The ad said she was a "wonderful producer'!
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Grand-daughter of VA Shanto's Xano |
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OMdoG,
This topic is both sad and funny.......luv the pic of the fatty showing the Boston T. Maybe she was trying to catch the judges eye................or give him an eye full !!...............YIKES!
As for the dogs, I really feel for them.........not only are they deformed to the extreme ,(thanks to we crappy human beings) , they are also laughed at...the butt of everyones fun ....and call me a prude but I don't think it is fair to be calling them ugly either . Other than the human animal, no animal is ugly imo.
very interesting topic though !
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babe, these dogs are so prevalent in the Am. S/L that they are not even considered unusual.
The only place I take exception is when it comes to color.
While I, like most, prefer good color/pigment, I would never equate poor color with the hock walking, mini crouped, thin thighed dogs you posted from the Am. S/L.
Rik
p.s.: Babe, the things that offend me more about the washed out GSD stud that you posted are (1) his east/west feet and (2) if he is a stud, where is his (hangy down) thang. |
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Poor pigment may be one of the easier things to 'fix' when breeding, but, having made the mistake of buying a pup which turned into an adult with badly faded pigment, I wlll be careful not to do that again!
I know a lady who has a bitch with almost no mask. She selected a male with good pigment and a dark mask to breed her to, and other breeders told her there was very little chance the female's mask would be passed on to the pups.
Well, guess what? Quite a number of the pups got momma's mask and colouring!
With so many good dogs out there, for heaven's sake,WHY breed dogs with pigment like the ones pictured above? It doesn't make sense!! (Okay, good structure is more important, but is it REALLY that hard to find a dog with both?)
And RIk? You had me ROTFLOL! Yes, INDEED! Where are his 'parts'? |
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As a pup-
As an adult-
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I know a person on the database who bought a pup from a well-known AKC breeder and judge. He actually looks for pups that have that sort of loose ligamentation, because they make good future show prospects!  |
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At some point somebody has got to tell these breeders that "The emporer is not wearing any clothes". Sure, most won't listen, because they love their doggies, and they love their pretty blue ribbons, and probably really love the puppy sale$ and stud fee$.
But yes, such corrections often fall on deaf ears. Let's see... how does that proverb go... A man's way is right in his own eyes, even when his feet are on the path to destruction.
... or when his dog's hocks are dragging on the ground...
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And yes, Rik, I had the same questions myself when I saw that ad. I swear he was listed as "top producing" stud. It's been a while, at least a year ago. Maybe his owners pulled the ad when they realized their wunder-stud couldn't deliver the goods. LOL
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It just hit, me, Shelly! I think we both posted pictures of the same bitch! Maybe the person who placed the ad didn't have enough English to realize they'd said 'stud' instead of 'bitch', or maybe they posted the wrong picture. If you look closely at your picture, you will see there is just NO WAY that could be a male. Even if he had really long hair on his belly, there would still be SOME hint of some genitals hiding in all that fur1 |
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http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/499580.html
I really like that Maximus vom Trompetersprung you posted Sunsilver. Link above. I remember checking that dog out the day they added it to the PDB. Very nice show dog I think.
If I was a breeder. He be my #1 show sire.
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Sunsilver,
The two pictures are not of the same dog whether bitch or stud, at least that is what I can see. |
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I found these 2 on here. The second one is a bitch that was for sale and theadvert said she had been mated and that she is a great worker and fabulous producer. The first one is an American Champion.
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| The second could use a better feeding program, she looks rough. |
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Come on, BabyEagle, quit pulling my leg! I can name a number of things wrong with that dog's structure that would prevent me from considering him as a stud, aside from the fact I think he's butt-ugly!
For one thing, his eyes are too light, and his head is WAAAYYY too heavy, His skull is has too high a dome,, and his muzzle is too short.He also has a broken topline, and a straight, upright front. His back looks more like a camel's than a GSD's, and I can't imagine it being very flexible. And that's JUST for starters!
Okay, I flipped the picture Shelly posted, and lightened it a bit, so you can see more detail of the face:
All right, yes, they aren't the same dog (or bitch!) This one has more of a curve to its back. But they COULD be siblings!
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SS, I have to believe that is a bitch. Look at the head. Besides lacking the boy stuff on one end, the head is feminine.
Body is a little on the masculine side. Maybe a tad too much bow in the back, but other than that and could use a little better saddle, I like her. Shoulder is very nice. Croup looks good. Angles look good. E/W feet don't look so good.
If it turns out to be a male, I'm going to erase this post.
Rik
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I have a question on this post - all these pictures that are posted of "terrible dogs"- where are they coming from guys - are they from the database that you pic out and think they are poor specimens as GSD - or are they personal dogs that you know....
Happyday |
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Rik, I agree. It HAS to be a female!
Here's a male with his boy bits hidden by fur. He could use more bone, but the head looks male: (And no, this particular dog is NOT being posted as an example of an extreme dog. He's got fairly decent structure.)
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I have to say that I do believe that is the same faded dog just stacked in a different direction. The handler is wearing the same jumpsuit.
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| And the same tennis shoes with the wierd yellow places. |
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The one with the weak pasterns and the head directly looking over the shoulders is just making me cringe, I wonder how much co-ordination that dog has while its trotting round the ring? The one that dawgesome sent aswell is shocking.
How can people think these dogs are sound enough to work or even be correct for the ring, it is just beyond me. |
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WHAT'S THIS THEN? People daring to have opinions on others dogs, ripping them to shreads based on pictures? That's not permitted on here, surely? Is it not normal now for some smart arse to come along and ask everyone for their crudentials? Where's the " show me your dogs" brigade? Not surprised to see the ring leader here though, that's all she posts about, i am surprised by a couple of other posters whom i thought would have known better. AS I SAID BEFORE, in most of these "photo's" SACK THE HANDLER!!!!!!!
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hello bazza, I don't post pics of other's dogs, most issues, good or bad, I can discuss using my own dogs.
Here is a fairly extreme female from my days when I thought I could be a breeder. She got a couple of points, but in the end, she had too much rear for the all breed ring and not quite enough front for the specialty ring.
I think she is fairly typical of much from the Am. S/L. Over done in the rear, The upper arm is long enough but poor placement.
Negative comments do not offend me at all. She was what she was.
Rik
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Bazza,
I would hope by now, you should see that I don't post "trashings" of anyone.
I can comment on a "critque" of a dog, when it is asked..........
I don't think the intent of most people is in malice.........and I do find the "pics" of the 2 "butt" pictures histerical!
Hell......it could be MY fat butt thats bent over in the GSD Shows!!
Robin |
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Robin, i most certainly do know you do not post "trashings". I also found the butt pictures hilarious, maybe the butt lady would not find it so hilarious to know her photo was splattered all over the internet!! I would also value any "critique" you gave as i would know it was given with experience and years of knowledge behind it. However there are two posters here who posted pictures of someones dogs for no other reason to be malicious. One of those posters is forever running down show line dogs as if she had any real knowledge of the breed. She owns a "didn't quite make the standard" show line, and recently purchased a Shiloh, and sits at her computer all day scouring for " ugly dogs" for her personal collection. She has absolutely no knowledge, other than what she reads on the internet, of a correct GSD or not, as is evident here by her comments on conformation. I am afraid her ignorance shines through every time, and because of this total ignorance of the gsd standard and how to actually apply it, i find her comments angersome and think she should keep that large hole directly below her nose tightly shut. Or if that is too hard go back to advising on the SHILOH or how to keep your females panty pad in place during a season!!!!!!!
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Bazza,
1) I did NOT START THIS THREAD
2) I am not the only one who keeps a file of dogs whose structure is 'way out there'
3) I am, however, the one who started THIS thread, to counterbalance this 'extreme dog' thread: Dogs That Catch Your Eye
www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/forum/18290.html
4) I have NEVER EVER trashed anyone on the PDB, or any other message board the way you just trashed me. Class act, Bazza, real classy!
As far as these pictures go, anyone who breeds dogs like the above, and thinks they are 'correct' needs a wakeup call! Breeders need to stop breeding for extremes, and focus more on function and making sure the dog is capable of doing the job it was originally bred to do.
And this applies to ALL breeds, not just the GSD.
AS for the 'panty pad', now you're REALLY being ridiculous! I suppose your house is set up solely for the comfort and convenience of your dogs, Bazza? No carpets anywhere? No expensive wall-to-wall broadloom? Either that, or you must really LIKE cleaning blood out of the rugs! At the time I first tried this for an in-season bitch, I was living in someone else's home, and the whole main floor was broadloom. It was the bitch's first season, but she had a very heavy flow. (I had her spayed soon after, as she was a rescue.)
I do not have a kennel for my dogs, and do not want to keep an in-season bitch crated except for potty breaks. Unfortunately, this time the pad didn't work, as Star kept tearing it out of the 'seasonals' panty, and eating it. I originally bought the 'Seasonals' panty to keep Ranger from licking his incision when I had him neutered. It was a good alternative to those blasted e-collars, which he couldn't seem to get used to.
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Xeph, it is the same dog. I flipped the picture, so it was easier to compare the dog with the one I posted. I was thinking they MIGHT be the same dog, but they obvioulsly aren't.
Sorry for the confusion! |
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Sunsilver, never mentioned you by name but..... if the shoe fits...... So it is alright for you to trash theses dogs with your limited knowledge but " don't trash me" is that what you're saying? Not one of these dog's owners/breeders have come on here and said they think this is a correct gsd, so where is your arguement? I am not the first here to comment on the nonsense you post, and i certainly won't be the last. I also never said you started this thread, but you were quick to get your" ugly file" out for the zillionth time!!! Always the same any mention of showlines, overangulation,etc. etc. and out comes Sunsilver's infamous "ugly file", rather immature don't you think? And this applies to anyone sad enough who sit their looking for BAD PHOTOGRAPHS of dogs to keep on file. Have anyone of you slagging of these dogs seen them in the flesh? Think how you would feel if the shoe was on the other foot. 9 times out of 10 you will find the handler is to blame for not presenting a dog correctly. Sunsilver, yes i too have a fully carpeted house, the dogs i have inside are confined to an area that is easy to clean during seasons, NOT CRATED. I do hope you take her panty pad, with gents underpants turned round to accomodate the tail, off before you enter the schutzund field,lol,lol. No real malice intended, just having a laugh at your dogs expense like you have done with the above. Unless of course you actually were commenting with malice!!!!!!
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I do hope all you honest to goodnes experts here have the permission of all the owners to post the pictures of the dogs for you to critique. Of course you have, silly me, you girls asked the owners if you could copy their dogs pictures to your " ugly files", and copy them here for an expert opinion, and all the owners said " yes, of course you can, you go ahead and slag them off all you like". I DON'T THINK SO!!!!!!
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Sunsilver, never mentioned you by name but..... if the shoe fits......
Yeah, riiight! Like there's ANOTHER person on the board who just bought a Shiloh pup! 
I also never said you started this thread, but you were quick to get your" ugly file" out
Ten posts into the thread. Right. Real quick on the draw there!
Always the same any mention of showlines, overangulation,etc. etc. and out comes Sunsilver's infamous "ugly file",
You might want to go back and take a look. The dogs I posted included American dogs, as well as a Czech working line female. The 'Dogs That Catch Your Eye Thread' included two German showlines, and I could have posted more if I'd wanted to. Lots of 'em in my "Dogs I Like' file! I don't search these photos out deliberately, either the nice photos or the crappy dogs, but when one pops up that's really spectacular, into the file it goes...
9 times out of 10 you will find the handler is to blame for not presenting a dog correctly.
OMG, I nearly splurted coffee on my keyboard over that one! As if a handler is going to be able to correct a back that looks like a camel's, or pasterns that sag to the ground, or that poor Czech female who looks like she's crossed with a dwarf breed like a corgi! Yes, extreme stacks don't help, but if you look at the dogs I posted, most of them are stacked correctly, or, at least what's considered correct for their show venue (American lines.)
No personal malice was intended with any of those pictures. I don't know any of the owners or handlers. |
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Now it's my turn to splurt the coffee. This has to be a joke no malice intended? Then go on to describe someones dog as being crossed with a dwarf breed like a corgi. You still have not answered if you have PERMISSION to use any photograph. My advice to you would be to stick to that other breed you have, you most certainly have a vast knowledge of them, just a shame nobody here is interested in Shiloh's. I'm sure they must have a forum of some sorts where you could advise people, it might keep you away from posting utter pish about gsd's.
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I disagree with you Bazza. This is a breed I love, the only breed actually. No one has given birth to these dogs, but someone is breeding very poor specimans, and someone else is putting them on the podium. That is WRONG!!! If it takes someone to show the wrong doings of breeders and judges to wake people up than GOOD. For every newbie looking for a GSD, I hope they read this thread.
If you want to trash my dog, go ahead. I didn't breed nor give birth to her. I already know her faults. Why would I take it personally? If I did breed a crippled looking dog, than shame on me, and yes, I deserve to hear about it.
This breed will never get out of the mess it is in if we all turn a blind eye and lie, lie, lie, "yes, you have a great dog there, you should breed it!" |
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Bazza, is someone forcing you to read these posts? Perhaps you should skip over them if you find they
offend your delicate sensabilities. Who died and made you the be all and end all of this boards and German
Shepherds? |
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And go ahead and trash me and my dog. I don't show or breed, never will. But my $150 BYB girl is
sound enough to run/trot 5 miles at a time, can fetch the ball far longer than I can throw it, is pleasing
to my eye and has a good life here. |
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I think what bazza is saying here is that although these aren't perfect dogs, a lot of them are so poorly stacked you really can't tell how bad the dog is. Go back and look at the first example on this thread. Instead of one of the rear legs back, they both are back, also past vertical. The rear feet are pointed like a clock at ten minutes to two, or two hockey sticks coming down the ice. Is the dog as bad as it looks? Or is the stack making it look ten times worse?
Also there was a past post about violating copyrights when using someone elses pictures without their permission. Many of the people here were all over the people doing this when of course they are probably keeping files on other peoples dogs. Hey we are probably all guilty of coping some pictures.
I guess I just wanted to say I know where Bazza is coming from after reading his posts. |
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Why "stack" dogs anyway? Why not let them stand like nature intended? Then you couldn't say, it's the stack that
makes the dog look like that. |
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Hi,
I have little knowledge to comment on the above dogs, I think if I had the knowledge I would have commented on those pictures no doubt, I think if I also had my own file of extreme dogs I would have shared with you some photoes.
I think all of those who posted on this thread enjoyed themselves as the topic is important and at the same time interesting. If anything is wrong in this thread I do not think the blame should go only on Sunsilver as we are all guilty (If the thread itself is wrong) which I think is not.
When people post pictures of their dogs on the net, when they show them in the ring and when they put them in competition the dogs in a way become public. Others have the right to comment on them whether positively or negatively. If some one does not want others to comment on his or her dog then the dog should not be shown and brought to public.
The only thing which is wrong is to take a picture of some one else's dog and use it in an ill way such as pretending it is yours or use it in promoting your own product etc.
If the intentions behind a critique are healthy then there is no harm at all.
Ibrahim |
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NINJA, Thank you at last someone with common sense. Ibrahim, you certainly have a lot to learn and listening to most hear you will learn nothing, please please keep an open mind. If you are truly interested in learning about this breed, avoid Sunsilver and co.
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First I would like to say that probably all the people whose dog pictures are shown here, love their dogs.And I do not think that anybody here wants to hurt their feelings. I know that if any of these dogs would be injured or lost all the people here would pour their hearts out. Thus I hope that their feelings are not hurt too badly and instead they can see what horrible thing they are doing to GSD. Some of the dogs here are atrocious . Stacked or not. It is an educational to see what the GSD MUST NOT look like. Unfortunately I know that many people see these atrocious specimen as a top of the breed. And that pains me. If poking fun of these dogs will serve the purpose of discouraging novices and old breeders alike to breed such dogs, then it is OK. As long as it helps the breed.
" The shepherd dog is a service dog & must be bred as a service dog and must be only judged as a service dog. With service dog, the suitability ranks higher then beauty." Sounds familiar?
Beauty of a shepherd is the beauty of an athlete. Their ability to perform is derived from sound athletic body. Any breeding which only caters to someones warped idea of what GSD should look like, or which caters to a fad without regard to a greater picture, needs to be pointed out and yes maybe ridiculed. If that is what it takes to preserve our beloved breed, so be it.
For the sake of GSD!
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com |
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Bazza,
I respect your point of view but I think Prager Hans is nearer to a (thorough neutral evaluation). |
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The point i am trying to make is none of the owners nor breeders of the pictured dogs have said "this is what a correct gsd should look like" so please tell me why these particular dogs are being chosen to ridicule. Especially when the comments come from some of the least knowledgeable people on this board. I have never seen any of the dogs in the flesh, and i'll bet no one else has either so how can one judge them on a photo. But if you guys want to continue judgeing dogs on photo's , go ahead, me i'll stick to judgeing in the flesh, and say what i always say about a crap photo, " sack the handler". RED SABLE, lets face it you are NEVER going to agree with anything i say, but hey that's okay, your a lot younger than me, and also have a lot to learn. GSDRULE, if yo do not know why the gsd is " stacked" by now you too have a lot to learn. Maybe some of the so called experts here could explain it to you in simple terms that you may understand, i do not have the patience!!!!!!
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To GSDSRULE:
They are stacked in order for a judge to be able to uniformly evaluate structure of the dog in comparison to other dogs.
:)
Prager Hans |
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Wow, back when I posted this thread I checked it the next day and only one person had posted...who was also interested in seeing pics, now I come back...a week some-odd later? and 80+ posts!
.........and I thought for sure the thread was a lost quest, lol.
these are some great examples, are there any more?
It wasn't my intention for it to be about bashing, but for educating myself (and anyone else interested) on dog structure.
And to be fair, about the czech dog that was posted, it looks like a puppy to me, I've seen working line pups that looked like that dog at 4 or 5 months old. |
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First of all, I feel sorry for some dogs that are so loose and angled that they appear crippled or at least "uncomfortable in their own skin". I think it's really sad to see such specimens. But I think the blame has to rest squarely with the judges who are supposed to be holding this breed to a "standard". And that standard should not include putting these poor animals on a pedestal, literally. If these dogs were not winning breed shows, they wouldn't be bred to in the first place. The judges are responsible, period.
Now, don't even get me started on those who want to be breed police when they themselves are hiding skeletons in glass closets. Who really cares about the individual dogs and what constitutes moral obligation to a "beloved family member" when dogs are dumped because they don't live up to our expectations? I do believe that's a question that needs serious consideration. I remember a few fairy tales myself. Once upon a time... |
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ONE LAST TIME....... HAS ANYONE HERE SEEN ANY OF THESE DOGS IN PERSON? HAS ANYONE HERE GOT PERMISSION FROM OWNERS TO POST PICTURES?
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Unfortunately, most of the hock-walking bandy-legged GSDs that I have in my personal "GSD freak show" collection are from photos from advertisements on this site, posted by some schmuck PROMOTING the alleged VALUE that these genetic misfits are supposed to have. None of my personal collection of "freaks" are from kind-hearted people rescuing a deformed dog. Nope... they are "podium" dogs, "stud" dogs, "proven producers".
I have seen "extreme" dogs like these in person, and it makes me shudder every time I see one of these miserable spooks dragging their hocks and cringing at every person that walks by. Fortunately most of those dogs that I know ARE rescues, taken in by benevolent souls who feel sorry that the poor dog was bred to be a freak.
This lovey-dovey "why can't we just all get along" attitude can only stretch so far. When human beings willfully produce a deformed dog for the sake of ego and financial gain, only the dogs suffer for it. Pfui!
Anyone who wants to take pot shots of my own dog, feel free... "Diesel von Hayden" listed here in the database. He's a well built active WL pup all full of piss and vinegar. He will never win ribbons in the conformation ring, AKC or SV, but he just might turn out to be one helluva working dog. ;)
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Prager, thanks for your post. I think you've captured the sentiment quite well. Yes, these dogs are loved by their owners, but NO they are NOT examples of a quality working dog.
Absolutely there is value for the novice to see the difference between good and bad breeding. We all started somewhere on the learning curve. All the better for someone to open the eyes of the breeder sooner, rather than later, when the malformed pups are already on the ground and needing to be sold. |
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Well I can say that the picture I posted was public domain (as you can see in the link), and I'm sorry, but no matter HOW you try to dress it, the dog looking as she does has NOTHING to do with how she is stacked, and EVERYTHING to do with how she is built! Same for the second dog! I can't say anything for the rest, but the first two ARE extremes. Nothing was said about them beyond that.
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hey bazza
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That is so wrong but so funny o.O! LOL!
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| Keep it mature, folks, keep it real... |
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Okay, I'm cleaning coffee off my keyboard again...ROTFLOL!
Hans, you are right about the Czech dog I posted. She was born in 2008: www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/552738.html and I've had that picture awhile. I hope she's gotten some strength in those pasterns since then. Her parents look to be nice dogs.
Like SchBabe, I get most of these photos from ads. Often the burbs that go along with the ads have me dropping my jaw in disbelief. And sometimes when I check the dog's webpage on the database, I find this dog, with glaringly obvious structural flaws, has already sired 80 to 100 progeny!
Oh, forgive me. Bazza thinks I woudn't know a structurally incorrect dog if it bit me on the ass...
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| I don't think Geran's dogs belong on this list. yes, they are extremely stacked. in casual shots, these dogs do not look like that. I've talked |
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| I don't think Geran's dogs belong on this list. yes, they are extremely stacked. in casual shots, these dogs do not look like that. I've talked to |
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| I don't think Geran's dogs belong on this list. yes, they are extremely stacked. in casual shots, these dogs do not look like that. I've talked to him m |
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I don't think Geran's dogs belong on this list. yes, they are extremely stacked in those photos. in casual shots and in person, these dogs do not look like that. He is not a breeder who concentrates on the extreme angulation, but instead breeds for balance on both ends.
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| Spit it out Uber! |
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| sorry about that. I hit send once, and it posted all those. |
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| Which dogs are those, Uber? I don't see them named. |
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In Hamza's post. Lollie and Willie
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Very sensible Uber, SUNSILVER, are you sure that's coffee you splurt or pish as usual, PMPLMFAO.
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ILMD, forgot, sentiments returned but have a bit of fun and sit on it and twirl, lmfao.
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Sita'sMom, that's an excellent article one I've had bookmarrked on my computer for several years now. (I think I got the link from Tina Barber, before I joined the PDB.)
But you're confusing me: that pup is obviously a German dog, not American? Is it working lines?
And no, believe it or not, she's not quite extreme enough to make my file... |
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Extreme enough???? I believe the word you use is "ugly". It is not your "extreme file" it's your " ugly file" is it not? Tina Barber!!! Now i understand all the crap you spew. By the way you aint no oil painting yourself when you're going on about "ugly" lmfao. Tah Tah Barry G. xxx
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I like a dog to be balanced, so in most cases, 'extreme' and 'ugly' are pretty well synonymous to me. And that article is a darn good description of what went wrong with the American GSD, which is why Tina now breeds Shilohs, and not GSD's. Some of you turned to the German lines, Tina went her own way, and no one has any right to tell her she made the wrong decision.
Ta-ta, Barry. Don't let the doorknob hit ya...
I'd better go work my dogs before my temper kicks in, and I start stooping to Barry's level... |
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To GSDSRULE:
They are stacked in order for a judge to be able to uniformly evaluate structure of the dog in comparison to other dogs.
:)
Prager Hans
Thanks, I understand that, but isn't each dog supposed to be judged on how it fits the standard, not compared
to each other? I think it should be "kept real" by having each dog stand naturally and judged against the standard
instead of putting each dog in a unnatural pose and comparing each to the other.
*shrugs* |
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sorry about that. I hit send once, and it posted all those.
Nothing to be sorry about, I was just a funnin ya Uber.
You never know whats gonna happen to a post, disappears, doubles, etc. |
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To answer one of your questions Bazza, I have seen in person a dog that was posted in this thread.
Sunsilver posted a bi-color female with white on her chest, the dog in the photo just under these words in Sunsilver's post
"Rik, unfortunately, I think I can top Xeph's entry...
Here are a couple of American dogs for you. The black and tan dog is a UKC champion!"
I know the owner of this dog and I saw her earlier this year soon after she bought her from the breeder, the owner also has a half-sister of this dog that is pure american showlines too (pedigree chock full of champions) and yet is very under-angulated and looks like a throw-back. Quite odd results I thought. but the female in Sunsilver's post is a hock walker, hock trotter, hock runner, etc. and imo very timid/shy (could have been circumstances, but still not my cup of tea). It seemed to me that the back is like a slinky, the wobble to and fro and up and down, often standing sway-backed.
But, the pedigree is chock full of champions, she's been in the show ring, so she must be great breeding quality.
.......................
...................................................*coff* *coff* |
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the pictures posted make me cringe.
I can not stack my dog like that if i tried, anatomically he is not made that way.
It seems to me, in my limited experience the A/SL are shorter in leg, and longer in body than G/SL.
It saddens me that there are people that think that those dogs or dogs similar to those posted are correct to the standard. |
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Thanks, I understand that, but isn't each dog supposed to be judged on how it fits the standard, not compared
to each other? I think it should be "kept real" by having each dog stand naturally and judged against the standard
instead of putting each dog in a unnatural pose and comparing each to the other.
Totally agree GSDrule!
These dogs that don't even actually look to bad in a stack look MUCH worse when standing naturally. |
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hawker, it depends largely on the lines a dog comes from in terms of leg. I've noticed for example, that Hickoryhill dog's are longer in leg where as Whispawillow dogs are generally very low stationed.
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All i can say about these photos on this thread, Where are the Morons who have done this to our beloved German Shepherd Breed They want Horse whipping and i would gladly do it too them its bloody immoral
If it carries on like this then the breed is finished,and If that is what Showing Dogs is then i am truly glad i am not part of this disgusting scene, I could use stronger language on this it is truly sickening
Steve1 |
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I feel the same as you do Steve. I almost hurt physically looking at most of these poor animals. How can they NOT be in pain??? I will bet that they are!!!
As others mentioned, they look deformed! Both the American and the German lines. And Extreme was a good word. What a shame...
I have a female GSD from German showlines. I would not have chosen the showline but she was a gift from a good friend overseas and I absolutely adore her! She would not win any ribbons, but I like that her back does not have that unnatural looking, deformed hump! It IS disgusting what has been done to this breed! And the broad smiles on the handler's faces makes me sick to my stomach!
Stacy |
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| Thanks Xeph, that makes sense |
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To GSDSRULE:
Of course it is in comparison to the standard of structure. But the dogs need to stay the same way so that you can evaluate them each in comparison to standard and thus see which one is better and which one is not as good as standard. Thus comparing them to each other.
Prager (Hans)
http://www.alpinek9.com |
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