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Classified: Superior female, top placed german Siegershow
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GSD Mix??? (108 replies)
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Good for you!  Doesn't look too mixed to me! |
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| To me he kind of looks like that photo of the Shiloh that...Sunsilver? posted a couple times. |
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 No swearing! |
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ACK!
OK, he looks like some dogs I met out of Dean Calderon's lines. I hope Dean reads this and maybe checks out whether it's one of his. |
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Best of luck anyway, he looks like a nice dog. |
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| OK, I'm picking him up at this evening. They were taking him in to be euthanized this morning, jeeze. So please, if anybody knows of a person wanting him in California, let me know. He's not neutered, either, not that anybody here would breed him. I'll get him evaluated to see what he would be good at. |
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| Thanks for rescuing the dog, you have a big heart. The ad and picture are deleted can you post a picture? |
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| Yes, please post a pic because the link is not working now. |
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Rescues often say purebreds are mixes. I don't know why. Maybe it's so people can't come back at them and say "HEY, you said this dog was PUREBRED, and I just found out it isn't!" Or maybe some people would want to rescue purebred animals, hoping to breed them.
YES, pictures PLEASE!  |
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HOLY WOLF DOG, BATMAN!
The bitch he's with here is NINETY POUNDS! Surely one of these K--- Shepherd or S----- Shepherd people will want him! He's a big bony 130 lbs, probably! 29 or so inches at the
shoulder, hard to measure him by myself. I'm not sure this picture is loading; may have to edit.
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| What he actually looks like is TWO Calderon dogs! |
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I think they need a bigger dog bed for those two...
Jim |
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| I'm in deep trouble. He stood up on his hind legs, hooked his elbows over the top of the 6' kennel, and pulled himself over. The woman who had him last night tried to crate him but he destroyed one wire one and one plastic one. My fences are only 7' high; I don't see how I'm going to keep him in...I am going to call the wolf rescue people. |
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Holy Gigantor! He's Humongus! He looks like a happy boy, thank you for rescuing this big, big boy! How's his temperment? Good luck, & good job well done! jackie harris |
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| He has a good temperament, but I feel spooky! He has weird eyes, and I feel like I'm in way over my head! I'm sleeping in the damn crate tonight. |
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WOW is he HUGE...the look on Alli's face says it all. He makes her look small. What a huge guy. Glad he gets along with her. |
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| He howls like a timberwolf every time a car alarm goes off or the train whistle blows. Hilarious. Then he's just standing there and reaches up and touches my freaking face with his paw. This is really an interesting task. We'll see if I'm up to it...Jyl, this is the first time in her entire life Ally has felt dominated. Never thought I'd see it. |
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LOL! Reminds me of the time my very dominant GSD bitch met a huge harlequin Great Dane. She went right down on the ground and rolled on her back, like a submissive pup! Only time I ever saw her do that. Usually, she'd test the other dog out, to see if she could dominate it.
From the pic, I first thought 'Shiloh'. The Kings are more often black and tan, while a lot of Shilohs are brown or grey sable, or black and silver. But then you said he howls, which is not a Shiloh trait. So, yeah, I'm wondering if there is wolf in there, especially given the 'weird' eyes (which, again, are not a Shiloh trait.)
But Shiloh males can be up to 31 inches, and 130-140 lbs.
And now you know how he wound up in rescue. Looks like he's an escape artist!
Good luck with placing him! |
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Maybe alittle Malamute, they howl at sirens. jmo
Always,
Cee
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The guy was over this morning installing a chain  in the middle of my back yard....I have to go to work 4 hours a day, and this boy would be gone. The man went out to his truck for something, and big boy, wanting to go with him, sailed over the 7 foot fence like it was knee high. Panic! But when the man whistled, the dog came right back!
I now declare a wolf-naming contest...Don't know what you'd win besides maybe a photo of a wolf kiss. I am pretty sure he's wolf and gsd. Sunsilver, I thought of Shilohs right away, but he isn't built like one. He has weird front legs and that long narrow jaw. He moves like pure wolf, no GSD in that gait.
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| Relax, I had a rescue shepherd who went nuts any time she was near a crate. BUT as long as I didn't try to restrain her in any way she behaved very well. Taya was an excapee too. She went over a 7 foot fence like she was a bird. Again, as long as I didn't try to keep her by me, LOL she stayed right next to me. He is a nice boy!! I wish I was closer I would take him myself! I love the sable color ones :) |
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How about LUPI? If he has wolf (lupine) in him, that's perfect... and he does sound a little loopy too! |
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Last night I gave him a small leg of lamb, which he took out back and buried in the mud. It's been raining here a lot. This morning, he went out and got it and brought it inside to eat. OK. So I try to take it away from him but I didn't like the look in his eye (plus he growled at Ally) so I retreated, just grabbing his collar instead. I dragged him out back with the leg in his mouth. 10 seconds later he was back in again; he had hopped the divider fence out back, come in thru the side garage door, and into the kitchen thru the dog door. He is now eating the damn thing in the middle of my living room rug, which is one of those expensive carved Chinese dealies from the 1950s. Mud EVERYwhere. I am just not set up for it! What a monster. Lucky for me he seems to like me...
Jaxsmom, I can put him on the train to you....?
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"Greylin."
I knew a wonderful, wonderful wolf/dog cross with this name. He lived to a ripe old age. He lived on the farm my daughter managed - it was a huge place of approx. 250 acres, lots of it in woods, and this creature adored my daughter. When I would visit her I'd wake up in the morning and outside her one-room "house" on the property would be the most enormous footprints: Greylin had been there during the night making sure she was safe.
He loved her, and she loved him. Although he was lighter in color than your new friend, VomMarischal, his photo reminded me of Greylin. |
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| He certainly sounds smart... keep him? |
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There is a breeder that breeds wolfs (calls them hybred so legal, but they are pure Wolf) in the inland empire. I have seen a few of them out and about. They are huge and move funny, kinda lanky like not all screwed together, if timber wolf. They are unbelievabley fast and will out smart you. They also do not like being left alone to the point they will do something about it. This breed requires a little bit of different handling, I would get some advise on this one, or call a wolf rescue. I am so glad it was not John Q. public that went and got him, within a few weeks they could have real issues with him. Here is a link of breeders maybe you can get some advise. Any idea of the age?
http://www.pets4you.com/wolf.html |
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 Thank you! Here's a decent photo of him.
 .jpg) |
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I vote you name him "Two Moon Dancer" and call him "Moons" :O)
or...Timber |
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| He is BEAUTIFUL. The intelligence shines out of him. I think he rocks. |
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With what he did with his dinner, reminds me of someone I know who had a Wolf. He only fed him about every 3 days and oh my the amount! Anyway, it could be that he is also raised to not eat daily. Never owned one but from people I know who have had one, they do not feed daily, one 1 person did. I could be all wet with this information, could be one breeder does and one does not, better find out. The way it was explained to me is they are to close to being wild and wild does not eat daily, systems do not handle it.
I can not wait to find out if still there and house intact after you get home from work! I do not think I would leave in car until you find out how he is on his own, I keep running pictures of distroyed cars in my mind, some pretty funny if not your car.
Also, I know one of the breeders will not sell you one unless you promise to allow him to sleep in your bed, I laughed so hard on that one, this guy was over 180 lbs ( I think 230) and HUGE, not fat. They stated it is the pack mentality and sleeping is a big thing in the wolf packs. They make you sign this in the contract and will pull the dog if they find out otherwise. I have never owned one, but sure enjoy finding out about them when I see them. I thought of telling hubby, it is just a dog in Wolves clothing, think he would buy it? |
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With what he did with his dinner, reminds me of someone I know who had a Wolf. He only fed him about every 3 days and oh my the amount! Anyway, it could be that he is also raised to not eat daily. Never owned one but from people I know who have had one, they do not feed daily, one 1 person did. I could be all wet with this information, could be one breeder does and one does not, better find out. The way it was explained to me is they are to close to being wild and wild does not eat daily, systems do not handle it.
I can not wait to find out if still there and house intact after you get home from work! I do not think I would leave in car until you find out how he is on his own, I keep running pictures of distroyed cars in my mind, some pretty funny if not your car.
Also, I know one of the breeders will not sell you one unless you promise to allow him to sleep in your bed, I laughed so hard on that one, this guy was over 180 lbs ( I think 230) and HUGE, not fat. They stated it is the pack mentality and sleeping is a big thing in the wolf packs. They make you sign this in the contract and will pull the dog if they find out otherwise. I have never owned one, but sure enjoy finding out about them when I see them. I thought of telling hubby, it is just a dog in Wolves clothing, think he would buy it? |
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| Whatever he is, he's a handsome monster, though I don't see any resemblance to the dogs out of Dean and Karla's kennel, plus he would be tattooed. |
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Well, a friend of mine has a Calderon male who looks just about exactly like this in the FACE, except the freaky eyes. I do like this dog, but OH MY, he is high maintenance. I'd have to re-work all fences, including the one to my hen coop.
Took him to the vet this morning....29 inches tall, and SEVENTY EIGHT POUNDS! WOW he looks a lot bigger than that...but then I went online, and grey wolves average 80 lbs, so he's in the ball park. This pretty much explains how he sails over 7' fences.
I understand the feeding only once in awhile. I may do that. Prey model, it's called, and it's supposed to be good for GSDs too, but my girl would think she was dying if I didn't feed her twice a day!
Greylin is a nice word! |
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God bless you for saveing this boys life I hope you get him that forever loving home
Rosie |
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| Yes, he needs to go before I fall too much in love. |
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| How old do you think he is? |
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| About 18 months. Still very babyish. |
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Wolves are shaped for running. Most of the canids hunt by stalking their prey, then running them down with blinding speed. Such adaptations that help them do this are their deep, narrow chest and their long, narrow legs that hold tight together, almost pressed into their chest. They leave a single line of tracks when they walk. In addition, wolves can run up to 40 mph for short distances, and can travel 40-70 miles in one day.
Wolves are digitigrade, which means that they walk on their toes rather than their entire foot, which makes their legs longer and makes them more agile.
Interesting.
It really does look like you have a wolf/dog there. Finding someone capable of taking care of him may be a chore, although there are folk looking for these dogs. Bless you for saving him. :) |
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AAAAWWWW!
Note that he takes up most of the walk-in closet! |
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| I would keep him, just start talking to people who own them and know them so that you can learn his quirks. The coming back by whistle tells me he has had some guidence. Did the shelter have any info on him. How did he do with the leash? I love it when they sing, my rott sings at every siren, he will come and get me to sing with him and when he is done goes back to what ever he was doing, lots of fun, my gsd looks at us as thou were nuts. |
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Oh boy, he is gonna be HUGE!!! You probably already know this, but play down the wolf aspect when talking to your neighbors, etc.. You know how worked up people get about pitts, and that is NOTHING compared to what their imaginations might do if they think a wolf is in the area. Chances are higher that he is not a wolf dog, but there is no way to know for sure.
He really is lucky you found him. How were you able to remove him from the shelter without them neutering him first? |
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| without them neutering him first, I was just wondering the same thing myself. Must have gotten him from a private party. |
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The shelter he was in folded. It was called the Lindsay (CA) Shelter, and it shut down rather suddenly. I don't know if there's a way to even contact them and find out any info at all besides what they told the woman who pulled him, just that he'd had two shots. The place had a bad reputation, animal abuse allegations etc. This dog does an almost instant 'sit,' but he drags on the leash and a pinch is the next order of business. I kept an E collar on him the first night in case he attacked the other dogs but after one skirmish, all was mellow.
I contacted a boatload of people today in the wolf business, and they agree that he is a wolf dog. One woman said she'd help me find him a home. I do like him a heck of a lot, but I'm so used to the GSD mind set, and I know what they are thinking. This guy is a whole new frontier and I'm not gung ho to go there. It's very interesting having a wild-ish thing in the house...kind of like my second husband--I thought I'd tame him, too! Well, that didn't work out very well...
I am involved in GSD rescue as you know...I'd rather stay with what I know! But dogs like this are such a novelty that I am really going to have to be very careful adopting him out, and make sure that it's not just some temporary kick someone is on.
I am in the Sacramento area...so if anybody hears of someone looking for a dog, please PM me!!!
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I have no doubt, between you and the wolf dog rescue people, you will find him a good home.  |
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Great for him & bravo for you!
Thanks for saving him!
Jen |
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You guys are funny. You're welcome!
Hey I managed to track down the kennel master of the shelter he was in. They say they know he is timber wolf and GSD, mostly timberwolf. I'm going to keep researching until I find out where he came from. |
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| There was a web site for wolf dogs that had a lot of info on how to care for them...it takes a lot of commitment...& a lot of fencing...they need something like a 10 foot fence (above ground) with an additional 3 feet buried, or they will quickly dig their way out, or jump or climb over, they need to have a 'pack', & a lot of land to roam on, they don't do well with traditional training, in fact, I think they said that you can never consider them 'trained', because they are too intelligent to just play along; I wish I could remember the site name..they were big on raising them & keeping them, because wolf packs are formed that way, & that the pups just don't bond well with outsiders...oh boy, it convinced me pretty quickly that wolf dogs were way over my head, but I still think they are gorgeous. I am totally in awe. His eyes look very wolfie. My husband had a wolf dog when his kids were young, named Bob, really creative name, huh? He has lots of Bob stories, but he said 'NO!' to another...I wish you all the best for taking this big boy, & I hope you find him a really good, responcible home. How about Amadeus? Good luck! jackie harris |
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VomMarichal,
There is a place here in MA. I've visited it years ago and was really nice. http://www.wolfhollowipswich.org/
Check them out! I was really in awe of of them how they interacted with the pack!
Jen |
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| That IS cool. But I'm a wuss! That would really scare me! I'm a little scared of this guy and I have to pretend not to be. He seems ok with it, oddly. Maybe he thinks it's a good faith gesture :) |
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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
This is killing me! This guy wants 100% of my attention every minute of the day!
Help me! I'm too old to take him jogging or hunting or hiking or whatever is in his mind!
I just want GSDs!!! Wolves are not fun! Interesting, yes; fun no!
As The Fly said, "Help me!"
I have no idea what I expect anybody to do. Just let me vent, I guess! Hey, pity would be nice!
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VomMarischal,
No pity here....LOL... but some envy. Good for you taking this fella in sounds like a very interesting challenge
Jim |
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| ENVY? No reason to envy me! I can ship him right out! |
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Definitely wolf and GSD...No doubt about it.
Good luck finding him a home that is equipped to handle him. Do some research on the various wolf rehab places around the US, contact them and see what they can tell you. This is just not the kind of dog a family can handle, and he's not going to be the type that can be shut in the house while his people are gone, and be content. No, no, no. I had a brief experience with a young wolf hybrid dog (she may not have been a hybrid) that was almost solid white.
A leather leash was severed in one bite, no chewing needed. She could climb and jump like nobody's business, and we couldn't keep her contained while we tried to decide what to do with her. She got along with my Malamute mix dog, but the dogs we had that were lop eared, she kept trying to attack. She was fast, silent, and lethal. She vanished one night, no idea where she went, but I'd guess she decided that humans were just too much trouble, and decided to try her luck on her own. We never could find her, and maybe it was for the best, as my little brothers were very small. She was about 30 inches at the shoulder, and not very heavy for her size, bright yellow eyes like the above cross...Very agile, frighteningly so. I didn't feel like she was intimidating to me, but I learned really fast that she was a dominant female, and that she respected humans, but little else.
It was a strange but memorable experience for me, and it's not one I would want to repeat. A dog like that needs to go to a place like Wolf People, in Cocolalla, Idaho, where private folks have a pack of wolves and wolf hybrids that they use to educate the public on wolves. They sometimes will take a wolf or hybrid wolf, and try to incorporate it into their pack, since their pack members are all fixed (I think, anyway), their pack doesn't self-repopulate, so they add to it as members age. Just my two cents on this, but be careful. That is not a dog, and don't think for a minute that it is. They are majestic, incredible animals, but they can't be taken for granted.
Crys |
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VomMarischal,
I talked to some friends that own and rescue wolves and wolfdogs and showed them the pics. They all agreed that he looks like a wolfdog. No one thought he was extremely high content but did say its impossible to tell how much wolf he really is from the photos. Could be anything from GSD/Malamute/Husky mix.
I was asked to please pass along this info:
You should not keep him on a chain unless he is used to being chained, very dangerous to both the dog and people. They can be highly destructive in a house if left alone and especially beware of him going through a window. For a pen, you will need at least 11 gauge wire, (she uses 6 gauge) minimum 8 feet high or with a top if he's a jumper or climber. Bolted to or imbedded in concrete, or buried minimum 3 feet in the ground to prevent digging out. Feed raw every other day or every three days. No children should ever be left alone with him.
For help in placement contact:
known personally and recommended
The Wolf Sanctum 828-688-9005 director@wolfsanctum.org
Full Moon Farm 828-669-1818 nancy@fullmoonfarm.org
or closer to you but no personal knowledge
Wolfsong Ranch 505-557-2354 info@wolfsongranch.org
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Thanks a lot, Mobjack, I have emailed them all.
I hate the chain. I know it's awful. But I'm not willing to completely rebuild my yard for the sake of one foster, if you see what I mean. THAT is why I'm so desperate to get him out of here ASAP and into a place where people are already wolf-ready.
I have definitely been feeding him raw, but not the gorge-and-fast method. I will switch to that soon, I think. For now, I'm trying to put some weight on him. His pelvic bones stick out an inch, although for all I know they are supposed to on wolves!
Looking forward to hearing from those people!! Thanks again.
PS. he's only chained about 4 hours a day. The rest of the time he's in the house pestering hell out of me.
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he is stressed and desperately doesn't want to "go back"
he's working really hard for you to love him and its driving you crazy which will result in him "going back"
break the cycle and you will most likely have a really great companion.
don't break the cycle and his furure is bleak.
teach him obedience then teach him to stay in a specific spot in each room. extended down stay. this will help.
Place an eye bolt in a stud in your wall and chain him up insied your house, place a small rug for him to stay on, move him into each room you happen to be in, use a short chain. he may get used to having space in between you and he and stop being under foot.
get a riding crop and wave in back and forth parallel to you so the dog gets hit in the nose ever time its crowding you.
get a bicycle and take him on long rides to wear him out. (there's a device to attach to your bike for heeling)
if he plays fetch, go out side and do it for an hour, if his pray drthen try some obedience training.
try some obedience training.
a tired dog is a happy dog. a happy dog can think and learn
good luck |
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| Please listen to the wolf people you have contacted....wolves & wolf hybrids do not learn like dogs do, & he is way too big & strong for you to provoke an attack by trying to train him like a dog.......I would not even suggest a 'training' method for him with out fear of having you injured or him euthanized. Do be careful of chaining him. And good luck....I hope one of those wolf places can accomodate him quickly....if you type wolf hybid into your seach engine it should bring up any number of wolf dog sanctuaries, there's even one close to us in NJ...not too practical for you, but a hopeful sign that there are folks out there who can help....! Best wishes, jackie harris |
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Well...in order to take him for a bike ride, I'm going to have to contact Michael Vick and ask to borrow his full outfit. The bigger the better. I can try to convince him it's one of the Twelve Steps to Making It Up With Dogs. Wow, I think I feel a book coming on!
I also think it's a bad idea to hit him (GREYLIN, I mean. It's a GOOD idea to hit Michael Vick). That said, I do have an E collar on him for emergencies. For example, at four o'clock this morning he stood on my head and refused to get off. So I said NO and zapped him. He then clawed at my head and chest for awhile until I couldn't take it, said NO, and zapped him again. I'm trying to teach him what NO means, because he's clearly never heard it before, or doesn't give a rat's patoot.
I don't think Greylin is related to real dogs in the SLIGHTEST. Pure mythology. This is much more like having a 6 month old colt in the house.
That photo sure makes them look like cool animals, though!
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VomMarischal,
I have to agree with you. I wouldn't rebuild my yard for either. For now you do what you have to do.
If he's used to being chained and he's in a secure fence you should be OK. Helen was concerned he might freak out and hurt himself or that a nosy kid could get to him. She called me again today checking up LOL!
She said be aware he may have very high predatory instincts and be especially aware of any alpha behavior from him.
If you don't have any luck placing him soon let me know and I'll check back with them.
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A woman contacted me today from Noah's Friends shelter. She is dying to have him. She wrote in her note,
"As far as getting him ready for a successful rehoming there is a particularly highly skilled trainer locally with whom we have on occasion contracted and who is deeply respected by those who know her who would probably love the opportunity to work with him: she, Tara Flaming Wilson, is a Police Officer, canine handler, and long-time dog trainer with a focus on GSDs as well as being experienced in K-9 Search and Rescue. You can read about her at http://www.k-9action.com/training.htm. Her father is also an experienced GSD trainer and the family owns a boarding facility located just a few miles from Noah's. If Greylin were to enter our program he would likely be hanging out with those folks for a couple of weeks while they put him through his doggy-be-good-so-that-you-can-be-successfully-rehomed paces."
Anybody know anything about this person, Tara Flaming Wilson? |
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If she even thinks she is going to put a wolf thru "doggie-be-good" and be successfully rehomed out, she is shy a few marbles.
People do have them as pets, but for it to be succesfull they have to learn the rules of the road, wolf style, and go down that road with no tickets. Very seldom will there be a 2nd chance. This is why the shelters are full, heck you can not even get people to raise their dogs right. I understand your concern and you have gotten in over your head, I have sent a pm with phone number, Best solution for both. There are quite a few on this board with loads of experiance in handling hard dogs, agressive, breaking up fights and willing to work with them, you hear anyone saying, I can do it. We all understand he is playing by a different set of rules,. and would need to get educated quickly inorder to handle him. He also could be the next best thing since Ice cream and could turn out to be a heck of a companion, but without meeting him and spending time with him and giving him time to adjust and become part of your pack, there is no way to tell how he really is in temperment and socaillability.Just stay stric with every dog in the house right now. |
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Yeah, that babytalk kind of bothered me too. Well, she does have experience with a few wolf hybrids, and I have to say that this one is going to be easier than many. I'm actually surviving it and teaching him a few things! I'm surprising myself.
Here's vid of him with a GSD. Yard is a MESS!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ylNudXh5D8
I contacted the Indian guy. The rescues have problems with Indians, because once the dogs go onto Federal land, the rescues can't make the adopter comply with the contract. I dunno. I have this instinct that Indians and wolves belong together...romantic vision of the old West, I suppose. |
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I seriously doubt he would be taking him with the mindset of rehoming, Knowing him, your wolf will have forever home with someone who has had wolves. the federal land, I am not sure about, I do not know if he purchased the land, I am thinking he is not on reservation, but really do not know. talk to him, you will see what I mean. He knows how to handle them and is not going to be put in the wrong hands so he would not be at risk again. |
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Exactly right! Bobby Joe is a GREAT guy, I'm smitten! He's on 48 acres of private land. He rescues abused horses. He wants Greylin for his own, and I sure as heck hope it works out that way. Greylin is going to be heading South towards Bobby Joe very soon, I think. Within the week.
TessJ10, EVERYONE loves the name!
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| Very, very, very cool. |
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Funny question, but some poeple swear by this- how does he drink his water? Lap it up like a dog or put his mouth to it and kind of suck it out of the bowl?
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Good job on saving this dog. All the posts remind me of the time I had a customer come thru training with a wolf hybrid. He didn't tell me. I took the dog and worked it. When I looked down and that dog looked into my eyes it was a feeling I will never forget. I remember thinking he was looking into my soul. I knew something was different, it wasn't until after the lesson was over the guy told me the dog was a wolf hybrid!
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| KCzaja, he doesn't drink like that. He drinks normally, but messily. However, I know a 4 month old pit puppy who drinks like that! Bright red puppy, looks like a tiny horse at the trough! |
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| Congrats on finding him a new home. |
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I have heard from a highly knowledgeable source that a dog will lap up its water (messily or not) with it's tongue, while a wolf puts its mouth to the water and sort of sucks it up. Never compared the two firsthand, so I wouldn't know!
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VomMarischal, Just wanted to say how much I have enjoyed your humour. Great turn of phrase!
Regards,
Vixen |
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| Yayyy! Good job! Congratulations on Greylin's new home, & to you for helping him in the first place! jackie harris |
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Good job! It was a good thing you did saving him from the needle, and recognizing that he needed more than you were able to give him. I wouldn't take on a hybrid like this...waaaayyyy too much dog for most dog people. Forget hard dogs, and all that. These guys don't really play by the same rules. The pack rules, yes. But no wolf hybrid is really going to be good at playing dog.
I wish the very best for Greylin and his future.
Crys |
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Greylin has a LOT in common with those Czech wolf dogs physically: the rear structure, super large front feet, relatively small head, coat.... I would love to know what their personalities are like. I would like to take this guy to my Czech friend to see what she thinks of him (not that I think he's Czech, just the wolf dog part), but she has Swine Flu so to heck with that!
The guy I want to send this dog to lives in a dinky town in Arizona, right near Needles, CA. He has no electricity so it's hard to just email him and arrange transport. He only uses the computer if he goes to town. But he did seem very sure.
Thanks for all the pats on the back, guys. It sure helps.
That said, I am still highly offended that the RESCUE was going to put him down because they couldn't handle him after 24 hours. I understand when a city shelter has to do it, but a RESCUE???? I have a chip on my shoulder. That same rescue that I rescued him from? They have him listed on their Success Stories now. GRRRRRRRRRR. |
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| This has been on of my favorite discussions. best wishes to you. |
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Aw, that's nice of you. Actually, everybody has been pretty darned supportive. Wasn't sure if I was going to survive it, but oh dear, he has turned into a really great guy and easy to handle. I'm just so surprised about how cool he is, how he looks me right in the eye and tries to understand every word. Lovely, lovely boy, and I am not one shred nervous about him any more.
Learned a lot about wolves and MYSELF too! |
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Looks you in the eye? From what I've read, that's something wolves would AVOID at all costs!
I'm really starting to wonder about this guy. Maybe he's just an unsocialized dog?
Here's a short video of a wolf-grey Shiloh Shepherd for comparison. And yes, looking you in the eye, and trying to understand everything you says IS a Shiloh characteristic! They also tend to want to be with you every minute. My GSD's are happy to be in the same room with me. My Shiloh pup (when not tormenting the other dogs) has to be right at my feet, where I can't get up off the couch without stepping on her.
www.youtube.com/watch |
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WAAAAY back at the beginning, my first guess was Shiloh Shepherd. However, he has features that are very wolf, like certain skull shapes (no indentation between his eyes, for example), that scent gland on the back of the tail (NOT just the hair spot), the foot and leg shape, the jagged hair (hard to describe, but he looks like he's been trimmed with pinking shears)...I don't know about wolves refusing to look people in the eye. Someone sent me a link of wolf/people interaction and they WERE looking each other in the eye. Not what I had thought either, but maybe that is about first meeting? Greylin wasn't doing it back then, it's just in the last couple days. Hope he's not challenging me!
You should see the weird way he walks. When they walk they walk on their toe tips, although when they stand their feet are fully flat, no cat-paw thing like dogs. So they kind of go up on their toes to walk and then throw their feet forward. The result is that his whithers go up and down like 2" with each step, a rocking horse motion. Reminds me of the cowboy waltz in a way.
I haven't EVER seen a dog walk like that. Anybody?
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Wow, look here! This is an EXACT photo of Greylin's eyes! lots of black eyeliner, and the membrane inside is coal black like this. Same color iris. This photo really surprised me when it opened.
www.flickr.com/photos/danihernanz/3661175714/ |
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VomMarischal, kinda funny if you ask me, they did find someone who was able to handle him and locate a forever home for him, so from their point of view it was a success. Now that they have your number they will call you for their next "problem child".
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Those yellow eyes give it away
Always,
Cee
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| You're right, too--they got me, right? Hey there's a sucker born every minute! |
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Eyes that would give a GSD breeder nightmares! Plus smallish, slanting ears. By the way, he is in a size large fursaver already.
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| What you said about him walking on his toes, is what I quoted above from a website about wolves. If he does that, than I'd say he's definitely part wolf. I'm glad he's an easy going sort, I don't blame you for being a little nervous I would be too. :) |
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RS, I thought that meant stayed on tiptoe all the time, when it's really only for part of the stride. When he is standing still, the toes are all harefooted. Then he like pinches them as each foot takes off.
He's getting more and more comfortable around here, and more and more demanding, too! GIMMEE PETS AND HUGS NOW! FEED ME NOW! LET ME IN! He likes the routines, it's pretty funny. Loves the dog door. He also likes that the young man next door to me takes him jogging!
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I've worked with wolves (I used to work for a vet that dealt with wildlife) and your boy is certainly a lovely hybrid. For me what says hybrid is his head size, ears, fur, frame, and legs and toes (particularly the toes and the way he stands). If you could post video of him trotting or running I bet he also "lopes" his back held level and his legs moving more loosely from the shoulder than you see in GSDs (or dogs generally). I wouldn't put too much stock in just the eye colour. I have an adopted black male who I'm pretty sure is working line and pure GSD (though I can't know for certain of course), and he came to me with those same bright yellow eyes. As he calmed down (he was obviously neglected and has behavioral issues with over-arousal) his eyes have gotten a little darker, more ambery than yellow, but they're still enough like Grelin's that I think it's just breeding outside the standard because his light eyes are striking with the dark coat. Not all grey wolves have yellow eyes either -- sometimes they are blue or green. (If you're curious about my dog he's pictured in my avatar.)
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Hey good idea on the running video. I'll try to get some while the kid next door is running him (27 year old dad who is in LOVE with Greylin and constantly wants to take him on walks and runs--and Greylin is now really good on the leash). You are right, he moves nothing like a GSD. Looks like a whole 'nother species when he walks and trots.
Did all the wolves you worked with eventually become so easy to get along with? Is it mythology that they eventually turn on people? I have lost all sense of caution when I interact with him. I'm no different with him now than I am with my GSDs. I'm a lot more cautious with Chows and Malamutes than with Greylin. Well, I suppose those get easier to work with too, when you're around them a lot. If wolf hybrids do.
Jackal your dog has a lovely face, yellow eyes and all. Have to admit they'd have shocked me a couple weeks ago, but now they seem...normal.
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Did all the wolves you worked with eventually become so easy to get along with?
The full wolves and high content hybrids weren't a problem, but they were treated like the wild animals they are (i.e. they were kept appropriately in big enclosures, able to socialize with others of their own kind, and weren't expected to act like dogs). Some of them were used for public education (i.e. taken to older school groups, that sort of thing), but it was always very carefully managed not to stress the animal too much. They're not aggressive, really. They're just very neophobic (afraid of or excited by new or different things), and not inclined to let humans get away with stuff like dogs are. (Try physical domination with a wolf and it *will* come back on you. You have to treat them with respect and work with them for them to work with you.) The low content hybrids (or those that threw on the "dog" end of the spectrum, because half-half genetics doesn't always get expressed as an even split) are basically the same as any of the more independent nordic breeds in regard to working with them, meaning that they're perfectly good dogs, but not stars at obedience.
Is it mythology that they eventually turn on people?
Mythology in the sense that it's some sort of pre-programmed treachery or viciousness. Mishandle a wolf or hybrid and it will react -- with force. Push it too far outside it's comfort zone (where it perceives itself to be threatened and unable to run away) and it *will* react. Forget that it's a wild animal and not a dog and treat it with contempt and it *will* react. Essentially you have to accept that the wolf is a wolf, and not expect it to be a dog -- and respect its' needs and drives -- and then there won't be a problem. In cases where people have problems with hybrids here (we have a lot of hybrids, because we have wolves, and very few people, so accidents happen with non-deliberate interbreeding) in every case the handler made a mistake (or a chain of mistakes) that led to the problem. Then unfortunately the animal ususally ends up destroyed. It's sad. Have you looked up Wolf Park? I don't think they're in your vicinity, but they have a lot of excellent information available about how to identify wolf dogs, how to keep them, etc.
Falco (my dog) is a handsome fellow -- just as well that he's beautiful because whoever had him before me made a real mess of him behaviorally. He's a good boy at heart though, and learning. And yes, his eyes certainly took some getting used to. Now they're perfectly normal to me too. |
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Thanks for the detailed answers. They help a lot.
Well, I've never felt the need to assert my bossy superiority over dogs, so I guess in this instance it's just as well. I never did believe that dogs would mistake me for another dog and accept my "place in the pack"...I always think it's better to have mutual respect between two separate species (I know, not a popular theory). I believe and act this way simply because most of the GSDs I know could beat me up if they wanted to, so I'm opting for a more level playing field: we're equal but different, and I'm the one with the food/toy so if they want it they have to cooperate. I'm the first one to admit that it doesn't always work, but it's how I like it.
I will look up Wolf Park now!
Luckily, this wolf dog has been well socialized somewhere along the line...makes me think he's a victim of the economy, getting dumped out in the country where he'd be fine, "back in the wild." Ill advised, yes, but someone did spend some time and effort on him. Freaking economy sure ruins dogs' lives.
I have been watching lots of vids. This one gives me LOTS of hints for training future abused/unsocialized/overly-dominant dogs, even though it's a wolf-dog:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqK5rZ_ya3Q
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That whole "pecking order in the pack" thing has developed into something far too rigid in the public understanding anyway. The original study that published "alpha theory" was flawed (relying on wolves who were introduced as unrelated adults, forced into close confinement in a zoo) and is long outdated. Modern wolf biologists speak of the "breeding pair", not the alpha(s), and they only have authority over the other wolves either because they're young wolves they are raising, or because they choose to stay with the pack. Different wolves assert themselves and take the lead with different activities (for example a wolf that can't be bothered to posture or fight for the first portion of food might be the leader when the pack hunts big dangerous game because he's *good* at it). Pack dynamics are relatively fluid and situational. Individuals can and will fight, but usually if they can't resolve healthy conflict with low level squabbling one wolf will just leave, and find a new territory for themselves or join up with others to form a different pack. Feral dog packs are even more fluid and unstructured, with individuals coming and going at will.
Essentially the leader is the one who controls the resources (and who is a benevolent leader, not one that controls through continous intimidation). Since I have opposable thumbs and the job that pays for food and treats I control the good stuff. :D My dogs have never needed more than that (I insist on politeness and good manners but I'm not a martinet). If someone feels driven to be in total control of absolutely everything all the time their dog probably sees them as insecure, rather than the opposite. |
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Spoiled Rotten Wolfdog
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He doesn't look very wolfish to me. Eyes are very round not slanted and the ears are still rather big. The front legs are what look most wolfish. There is a Wolf Sanctuary in Sac. I took a cert there a few years ago, you are suppossed to be certified to have or handle wolf/wolf hybreds in county. After seeing how much work and liability I said no thanks. I will try to find their link if they are still around. |
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Found them, I suggest taking a drive to see them...his house is ran over by wolves in a subdivision even. You will quickly see how they take over if you visit. Maybe they can help find him a home closer so you can visit. AZ seems far.
http://www.nevercrywolfrescue.com/default.asp
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| That pictures great. So much for the "glories" of life in the wild. Snoozing on the sofa is more comfortable! :D |
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He definitely decided that this furniture thing is the way to go. Have to admit, though, that when I caught him and took the picture, he had the decency to skulk away in humiliation.
Yep, 4Pack, that's him on NeverCryWolf's site. I'm going to try to get some movement vid of him. He is odd. His eyes are REALLY round, although the actual eyelids are are much slantier than, say, Jackal's dog's. It's just that he never seems to blink. Weird.
I'm going to put a bonnet and some big specs and an apron on him tomorrow. |
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HAPPY HALLOWEEN!
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GORGEOUS picture! WOW!
Did you go trick-or-treating with him? |
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| I really wanted to put specs, a bonnet, and an apron on him, but I couldn't get my dinky friend Dawn to wear a red cloak. She just had to be a vampire instead. Very disappointing! |
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What a gorgeous face he has!..."My what large round eyes you have!" He looks very sweet in that picture!
Stacy |
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My lovely Greylin is leaving me tomorrow, and my itty bitty heart is shattered. Sigh. He is going to a place that shelters homeless wolfdogs. If only I could keep him. But the city is no place for him.
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| Aw, I'm gonna miss reading about Greylin. I love the name and I love the pics. Thanks for sharing the experience with us. |
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| I'm sorry you have to give him up when you've obviously grown fond of each other. The fact that you're doing what's best for him, though, is nothing but admirable. Who knows, maybe you'll be able to visit him once he's settled into a new permanent home. Hopefully it's a great one, because he deserves nothing but the best! |
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This is the part that hurts the worse, where they have to leave, but we know he will be happy. Have you visited this rescue?
Always,
Cee |
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| VomMarischal, I think you maybe right and the economy is what may have put him on the streets. From what you have stated he is a friendly love. So sad when they pass thru our lives, we miss them so darn much. I wish him a safe secure journey. My hat is off to you that took courage, taking him in and not knowing his temperment. |
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