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Classified: Solid Black Female - Working Line Ready!
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megaesophagus in pup. (20 replies)
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| can anyone tell me more about this. i've been reading about it. do pups grow out of it? should the pup be put to sleep? she seems to be holding her own right now. she is the only one with this. she is 8 weeks old. was just wondering if they do get better as they age? any help would be great. thanks. |
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| Gosh, how I hate this condition.. wish someone would come up with a DNA marker test for it, now THAT would be useful!! I've seen it so much - in so many different lines, spanning a good 20 years! Pups can sometimes grow out of it .. sometimes it takes good management to help things along....
A lot depends on how much the pup is regurgitating right now....
It is believed that feeding the pup in an elevated dish helps and so does keeping the pup quiet after eating or drinking (a little difficult to do when siblings are running amok!!) sometimes Reglan can also help.
If the pup is thriving and can do things normally, then a good home might be in order...if the pup is struggling to keep weight on, then it could be a battle and euthanasia may be the kindest thing to do. These pups are more prone to aspirating and thus pneumonia.... so one must watch pretty closely.
There is a MegaE GSD who just completed his MACH (AKC Master Agility Champion), so they can do things...
We had 2 in our very first litter (most normal people would have quit, but not us!!) one had to be PTS because he had other problems as well and the other lived to be about 11 years old.
There is a very interesting site, you can email me privately and I'll send you the link...
The biggest issue with mega-e lies in the genetics and the distribution in the rest of the litter.... this is a recessive condition and requires both parents to carry the gene..however, according to a geneticists.. given this situation, 25% of the litter will be affected, 25% will be clear and 50% will be carriers.. so really we are faced with a whole new issue IF any littermates are chosen as breeding stock..
Feel free to email me if you have more questions |
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| Some pups can outgrow the megaE and some don't. i lost my poor Toby last fall to MegaE, he just got worse instead of better, he wa 16 weeks and the size of a 6-8 week oldpup. Make your pup eat in the sitting position and hand feed her, do not do any playing for at least one hour after she eats, and DO NOT let her lie down for a nap for about an hour either. She be in the upright position during this time, so the food can get to the tummy and stay there. Frequent light meals are better than 2 big meals. I wish you luck.
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| Are you sure this pup has mega? Some puppies that are full of worms will act the same a belly full of worms will cause a pup to regurgitate, vomit or even act as it's choking.
I would make sure that she's been wormed good and may have to be wormed several times over the course of 4 weeks.
Talk to your vet about a rigorous worming program before you have her put to sleep. This happened to me and I was lucky to have a vet who took this step first.
You have nothing to loose give it a try.
Birdy... |
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| I'm assuming this diagnosis was made via xray and barium swallow??? And if so, no amount of worming is gonna fix it..... |
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| Dkiah-
This is true, but that wasn't mentioned here and why would you not want to check out all options?
As I said, I went though this by experience so I feel my opinion is equally as valid.
Birdy... |
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| There is a huge difference in a dog with mega-e and a puppy trying to vomit because of worms or whatever and it is an unmistakeable difference.. The only way I know of, since there are several conditions that produce the same symptoms (PRAA, vascular ring anomaly and Mega-e), to make a definitive diagnosis and to even mention the condition is with a workup...
Never said your opinion wasn't valid, why is everybody so touchy??
I'm also assuming this is missykl's litter and she has wormed them (also recommended).... and had the necessary tests done...
This condition gives new meaning to the word hurl, because it is a passive involuntary reaction .. it is not the retching, heaving action produced with vomiting....
Enough said..... missykl, I mentioned that website... it's really quite informative.. feel free to email me for the link... |
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| missykl, the worst case scenario is when a puppy just born aspirates milk back through his nose. This is a sure sign of mega-esophagus, and always shows a larger than normal, poorly muscled esophagus. This condition in this severity will never get better, and in even less severe forms (such as esophagul ecclasia), the dog will have trouble keeping his food or water down, due to the more motility of the esophagus. A young puppy with no symptoms can devolp symptoms later gradually. The prognosis is grim long term and this disorder is certainly recessive genetically. I am not cerain if this trait is a simple binary recessive (ie one recessive gene like coat factor). There may be imcomplete penetrance issues controlled by additional genes. I think genetic testing will be available in 10m years or less. |
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| missykl,
The thing to remember with this condition is no two dogs are the same. We had a bit diagnosed at 5 weeks as soon as she started eating solid food we noticed the problems. After a day at the vets we were advised to put her to sleep and had decided to do so until I phoned to tell the vet. At this point the vet (different from the one spoken to earlier) said she was in good condition and as long as she kept that condition up it MIGHT be worth trying to keep going but to always expect the worst. We decided to give her a chance and told ourselves as soon as she lost condition or appeared to suffer we would have her put to sleep.
We fed her with her front feet elevated about 10 ins (she actually stood with her hind legs on our table with her bowl on the window ledge above her!!!) until she got fed up with this at about 4 months old and now feed her as normal. She is now 9 months old and is in good physical condition and continues to do well. She is normal size and weight and a real sweety.
My advice is if she is in good condition give her a chance but as soon as she looses that condition you have to think about putting her to sleep as that will probably be the start of real problems for her.
Saying that I would say whatever decision YOU make is the RIGHT one as I know how hard it is to decide. We could easily have ended up with a puppy wasting away before our eyes and making the decision even more heartbreaking, but we were lucky. I hope you are too!!!
PS One thing we noticed is to try feeding her dry food as she kept it down better. As a pup we would give her Pedigree puppy food with a small sachet of Pedigree meat chunks mixed through it. Our vet told us that by soaking her food it made it easier to vomit. Just make sure she has water available but DONT let her take huge meals or drinks. We found if she drank a lot in one go she would vomit. Small and often until she is bigger is best. She now is fed twice a day like any other 9 month old and is fine, but whilst young keep the meals small. |
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| thanks for the info. yes she was wormed and had none. she has been though the tests. |
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| Had a dog with megaesophagus. Breeder knew something was wrong but never told us ...dont think he knew what was wrong with her.We had never experienced it so we thought she had a weak stomach or something. It did nt start out being bad just occasional in the morning when we went out to feed her breakfast. There would be a little something in the kennel. But as time went on it got worse. We did try all the remedies to help her but she was not gaining weight and the regurgitations were becoming more frequent. We did have a barium swallow test and confirmed that she had it and kindly put her to sleep at 1 year old. They did a post mortum and her esophagus was larger than her stomach. |
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| Sorry Janette.. some of them just can't make it. Sad that you had to go thru it all.
I am so anal about my litters and have been accused of looking for trouble, but I would rather find it than someone else who grows to love a pup find it and then be heartbroken.... so, anytime I even have a tiny feeling about a pup for any reason, I am checking it out.
Hope you have great luck with your next pup |
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| What a sad thing! Do pups with Mega E usually regurgitate after every meal? Are they usually fine other than that, active, happy, etc? |
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| Sometimes they do but not always.. had one years ago that did, he would run away from the dish before he was done eating.... it would just come out and then of course being a dog, he recycled it.
My latest it only happened when she was nursing and we would find milk around her nose but she is doing great!!
She is not a frail, sickly thing.. she kicks butt and takes names!!
I've seen some thru the years that just didn't thrive at all and then some do..
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| So they can eat the food they regurgitate and hold it down? Is this a commen problem? |
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| yeah, it seems like it passes easier the second time thru.. I feed raw and my little one has had no trouble with the raw mix or the chicken/duck necks we feed..
That particular action is very normal for the condition....
If you mean, is megaesophagus very common, my answer would be hell, yeah!! There are lots of dogs out there carrying the gene..... the weeding out process is important, I think. |
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| Hello,
I have just read your post on megaesophagus and had to write, my 51/2 year old bitch whelped a litter of 6 pups 3 male and 3 female and 1 male pup had PRAA confirmed at 7 weeks with barium swallow. I asked my vet to put him to sleep but he rung me later that day and asked if I would give permission to do surgery as a nurse had fallen in love and would give him a home.
All went well and at 5 months old is still OK. Also with this litter all of the males were cryptorchids.
I spoke to the owner of the stud and she also had a pup with megaesophagus from the same male but she said she had no cryptorchids. This litter was my bitches 3 and we had no problems with testicles or PRAA in her previous litters. My question is were both of these conditions connected and if so is the stud dog responsible. He is a recent import from Germany. From 4 litters I find it strange that he has produced 1 PRAA and 1 Megaesophagus.
I have retained 1 beauiful bitch pup from this litter and I am a little concerned about breeding with her later. I would really like to hear from you on this subject thanking you |
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I am surprised to see no answer to the message above dated January 2007 ! Does this mean that no one is moderating this forum, or that no one can answer this question? I also have a pup of 5 months old diagnosed PRAA and ME. Apparently he is the only one of the litter to have this problem. However, one of his brother also living with us seems to be difficult concerning food and from time to time does vomit (not regurgitate). Should I be concerned and have him Xrd with baryte to verify he has not dilatation of his esophagus? Thank you for your reply. |
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I used a male out of a Lierburg female and bred him to one of my bitches who never ever had any offsprings with this and she had one out of the litter..noticed it at three weeks old....THe pup was put to sleep and I never sought that male again..I only used him because he was a Bastin gr grand son....and my partner wanted a Bi color but we didnt get.one of those....all the other pups are healthy . |
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I too was very surprised that no one responded to my post of January 17 2007. With so many knowledgable people that are on this site and no replies, does no one care about this problem or is it too difficult and they would rather sweep it under the carpet.? Does it run in certain lines, How many breeders have had puppies with it and say nothing ?
This puppy of mine would eat then he would start to cry & whine and simply regurgitate the food straight up he would then eat it a second time and then it always stayed down . At first I thought maybe it was diet related, so I changed the food that I was giving him but that didn't help.The first visit to the vet he was given something to settle his stomach but of course there was no change, I had seen a dog before that had Megaesophagas that was late onset (a 2 year old) so I did know of it. So on his next vet visit I asked about the possibility of that being his problem, which of course after a barium swallow x-ray PRAA was diagnosed and treated.
All other siblings are fine. And so is this puppy who is now almost 2 years old.
Catimini, good luck with your puppy, in order to diagnose your puppy's problem you would need for him to have a barium swallow x-ray. |
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There seems to be some thinking in the posts above that the sudden appearance of MegE in a litter out of a bitch who never expressed it before can be laid at the door of the stud dog. Folks this is like any other genetic recessive - it takes two to tango. Both parents are carriers of the gene(s). If they never produced one before you were just lucky that you were breeding to a non-carrier. Moving on and breeding to another stud does not negate the fact that your bitch is a carrier and probably passing on the genes to a percentage of her pups.
Kellyt(are you also dogshome9?) yes there is a concern keeping a littermate of a known MegE because there is always the possiblity she is a carrier. Now this is not my style but I do know of some breeders who view this as a fault that can be tolerated/managed (as opposed to things like heart, autoimmune,JRD, epilepsy etc etc) because they can xray the whole litter at 8 weeks and determine if any have it. They then PTS or limit reg the affected ones and continue on their way.
I do know it used to be fairly common in American showlines but have no idea the status of those these days. Yes it is genetic and seems to follow certain families.
I have not had one(thank goodness) but in talking to breeders who have and in reading about it my understanding is that there are varying expressions/degrees of it even within one litter- I'm presuming based on the size and elasticity of the eosophagus. This also suggests as Preston pointed out a more complex inheritance than a single gene recessive- perhaps the presence of some modifiers. I do know some dogs do get better with time and as adults have little or no problems. They seem to "outgrow" it.
I hope this information helps. I would be curious in the dogs mentioned above what lines have expressed it. You do not have to name the sire and dam if you do not want to but even knowing their prime linebreeding would be helpful. |
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