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Classified: Young male for sale
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Panda shepherd (32 replies)
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| I don't do facebook so I can't see the photos.... |
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Would very much like to see the photos silverish.... this is unusual. Unlikely to be a Panda though, as this was a new mutation and is specific to that line. Also panda is dominant so you would have seen it one of the parents.
By description you have what sounds to be an extreme white, a recessive on the S locus, which of course would have to be carried by both parents. The only thing is that carriers do also typically show white markings, though less extensive than you have described in the puppy. A flashily marked Boxer is typical of this... a heterozygous carrier of extreme white S s W
Not correct that black & silver has any association with white or any particular gender. All colour genes in canids are autosomal as far as is known.
You are correct in that no homozygote pandas have been reported, at least that's what I was told by the reasercher working on DNA identification of this gene. It is possible that you could have a new mutation... another panda or something new altogether. |
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| No facebook here either. Could you pm me and I'll post for you. |
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can you send the pedigrees ?
Josef |
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| TRY compare DNA with parents |
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I would not doubt that your male has some solid whites in his background,
I breed labs and I had a complete litter of yellow pups one time, and one of the pups had a big black spot behind her ear,
it was really neat looking, but she would not be a good breeding prospect, unless you were looking for funky marking on a lab.
I have also seen chocolate labs with rust eye brows and rust coloring on the legs & chest.....
Your pup just couldn't decide to be all black or all white! Cute!!! |
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A new mutation :) The genes suprise us every now and again. Is she healthy?
Always,
Cee
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Here's mom & dad I guess...
let me know if I'm correct...
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Wow. Dad looks a little Panda-ish himself.....
That puppy is wild! |
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As far as I know there is no white shepherd in my dogs background, I only have pictures of his parents, grandparents and great grandparents though. (Not on my computer) I am not sure of the mothers background, I do believe we are going to breed him with a white shepherd before we fix him, and it will be interesting to see what happens!
She is very healthy and VERY active, she eats like a little pig! She is the runt of her litter, but she is catching up fast! And that is mom and dad, I have the father... he looks a lot light in that picture then he really is, he has typically black saddle and long black tail! Anybody that can get to these pictures can also see pictures of the rest of the puppies as they grow up.
They are now 9 weeks old and weigh an average of 15-17 pounds (panda is smaller, around 9, but she is growing and healthy.. just went to the vet!) |
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| I agree with malshep: "A new mutation :) The genes suprise us every now and again." That puppy may just be a gift. Cool. |
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| SORRY, PROBLEMS WITH KEYBOARD |
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The solid white in Shepherds is totally different from the type of white in this puppy. Solid white is in fact a very pale form of yellow, the same gene that make a Labrador yellow. This pup is definitely not that type of white. That is evident by the normal coloured tanpoint patches on her head. She is a black & tan with a large expanse of unpigmented coat.
Breeding her to a white will produce white only if she happens to carry recessive e on the extension locus. She may possible carry it even if there are no whites in her breeding. A recessive can be carried for many generations, but that nothing to do with the colour of this particular pup.
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Might just be sliver like the dad. It could darken like my sable pup has started to. He went from almost soild black to almost solid red and now is getting dark again. Since it has a black nose i'd say it's just a light grey or silver color.
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| That is so wild! Seems like we are seeing more & more Panda pups popping up. Curious. |
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Silverish, if you are interested in finding out if this is a panda mutation, you should contact Mark Neff who is working on this. details here - http://www.pandashepherds.com/genetic_panda_info
You will need to send in DNA samples and they will no doubt ask for both parents as well as the pup. This will give an automatic check on parentage... something I would be inclined to do for peace of mind (as Galant has already suggested).
One other explanation is that this pup has had an interruption in normal pigment cell migration. A sort of blip in the developmental stage that isn't under genetic control. |
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Mirasmom -- solid white has nothing to do with spotting. Completely seperate Loci.
White coated shepherds...which are really cream coated...are double recessive at the Extension Locus.
Dogs with white spots are affected with recessive alleles at a Spotting Locus.
The pale coat color of the sire is caused by dominant alleles at the Intensity Locus.
No relationship to each other. Like Pod said, unless the pup carries for the recessive "e" at the Extension Locus you wont have extension white dogs. And unless the white dog carries for recessive spotting alleles liklihood is that you'll see alot more color and alot less white on the resulting progeny. As the Spotting Loci are incompletely dominant you would probably see spotting irregardless of the white dog carrying a recessive spotting allele...but you'll see less.
~Cate
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The other pups are not of normal color either. i doubt that this is a clean mutation of a gene.... more like a crippled one starting with dad.
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We will not be breeding the panda puppy, as this is one of the reasons why we kept her, a lot of people just wanted to breed her for her rare colour because people were willing to pay a lot more for her. We will be breeding her father again, and seeing as this rare and not completely understood ... we shall see what happens!
As I said that picture of the father makes him look a lot light than he actually is here are some pictures of him.
http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/photo.php?pid=3295785&id=502620610
and the pups are regular colours, only 2 of them are black and silver like mine, the camera just makes them look much lighter, and the little white one is definitly not silver, she is polar bear white! But I will post pictures as she grows! Also I dont know if this is important but her ears have been standing since she was 6 weeks which is odd, the rest of the puppies ears are still down ... just starting to perk up! And her nose was pink when she was born.
I would send DNA away but this is more of an interest for me than anything, I am also considering doing my thesis project on this, which then I would myself test the DNA and try and figure out what exactly is going on here!
If she is a 'mutant' then this colour should not show up in the next breeding because mutation rate is extremely low and the chances of the same gene mutating again is astronomical because as a few people have said there is no relation between pandas and white shepherds.
Either way she is an absolute perfect little pup, house trained at 7 weeks, listens, sits, doesn't beg... typical easy training of shepherds. And as she is a pet, not a breeding prospect I couldn't ask for anymore, plus she is just the cutest little thing!
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.jpg) This is Abbie. I have never really found out what made her coat so crazy. Think your pup is BEAUTIFUL! Enjoy! |
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| Too bad we can't breed the mutant colors, if you'll pardon the expression, because it would be fascinating to find out what they throw when crossed with various other color genes. |
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Hi Delilah. I hadn't seen those markings on a Shepherd before, thanks for posting. But no, that type of white is the E locus again, not the unpigmented type of white of this puppy. What's referred to as "birthmarks" on that webpage are in fact somatic mutations and are quite common in ee recessive yellows (white in Shepherds), though usually they are very small spots or just individual hairs. On that particular dog you can see the path of pigment cell migration as the mutation follows a line outwards from the neural crest. There are lots of instances of odd patterned somatic mutations on yellow Labradors and many photos of them on the net.
The pink nose of silverish's pup at birth is normal for extreme white. Pups in other breeds with this type of extensive white spotting are the same eg Dalmatians and Bull Terriers. It can take weeks for the pigment to colonise the nose, and sometimes it doesn't completely fill in. |
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My guess is: For F*cks Sake
Probably a reference to the breeding for fascination comment. That slippery slope thing. The GSD Standard vs. disqualifying color argument, "No good dog is a bad color". You know, that one. |
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I'm guessing it means. F***** Freaky Sh*t.  I know that is what I am thinking. LOL. |
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Beetree had it right, although its a comment on breeding practices in general, not just color. Standards, schmandards, right?
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Have to agree with KCzaja to a point. The obsession with colour in many breeds is what contributes to the narrowing of the gene pool and the GSD must surely rank as one of the worst on that score, particularly in the show ring where any dog that isn't the ubiquitous 'black & red' rarely gets a look in, at least here in the UK and Germany.
That said, this thread isn't so much about breeding for colour but understanding anomalies when they occur unintentionally. |
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This was such an interesting thread, the tool box of genes can do strange things. I hope the puppy grows up happy and healthy.
Always,
Cee |
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Classified: VA1 VEGAS GRANDSON for sale by Vom Osterhagen
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