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Classified: Zamp Son
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*AKC show SV* (21 replies)
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*American bred, AKC registered shepherd can be shown on SV, Sieger shows* TRUE or FALSE?
I know German dogs are welcomed at the AKC shows, just curious to see if this is the same for AKC dogs going to Sieger Shows in Germany. Sure this may not make much sense; different structures, anatomy, drives, titles, but enthusiast is an enthusiast, who is to tell someone that they can't show their dog?
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Yes, they can. TRUE.
.....any pure bred GSD that has a recognized FCI registry is capable of competing in Germany.
However to compete in the "working class" the dogs must fullfill the requirements setforth by the SV....ie...working titles, hips & elbow certifications and valid Korrung.
This is to my knowledge.
Robin |
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Yes, that is true for the Bundessiegerzuchtshau, or the Sieger Show as we call it.
I think the Bundesiegerprüfung is the only S.V.-sanctioned major show that requires the dog to be S.V.-registered and owned by someone who resides in Germany. The dog may have to be German-bred and German-born as well. I do not have a copy of the rules handy this morning.
Best Regards,
Bob-O |
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Absolutely true,
have you ever seen a "german bred GSD " compete in an "AM breed show " ?
A Puppy buyer of mine did that once, and was told by the judge after placing last : " After all, this show is about AM bred dogs, otherwise you would have been placed 1st !!"
Oh, what a nice world !
Ulli |
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Hey Bob,
we cross posted, hope you are well........ and that all the witches and ghosts of helloween didn't get you !
Ulli |
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"any pure bred GSD that has a recognized FCI registry "...
I may be wrong on this, but it was my understanding that the FCI doesn't recognize the AKC, as the American standard for the GSD is so different from the FCI standard. |
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| Hey Chris, hope you are well too ! Happy, belated, Helloween to you ! |
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Sunsilver,
Easy answer.......how does Mittelwest & Wilhendorf & other breeders compete in the German Sieger show then?
Also....I have had several dogs in Germany over the past few years and they have also shown & korred there.
All these dogs are born here in the USA and are AKC registered.
FCI is a pure breed registery.....and the AKC is a recognized registry by the FCI for pure breed dogs.
Robin
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Okay, guess they were just threatening to kick them out...
Or maybe wishful thinking on the part of those who dislike the American line dogs...  |
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| My Question is not for AKC registered GSD's that have German parents. My question is for American bred showlines that have no German Blood and no Schutzhund titles |
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| My Question is not for AKC registered GSD's that have German parents. My question is for American bred showlines that have no German Blood and no Schutzhund titles |
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It doesn't matter.......they are all still born here in the USA.
The SV rules apply to ALL GSDs, being shown in Germany.
FCI recognized registry & working titles and korrungs for the "working class" dogs. |
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Let me see if I am understanding this correctly, any AKC dog can be shown in a Sieger show anywhere, if they have a korung and a Schutzhund title? |
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If you are talking about the American German Shepherd, I don't think it is possible to show them in the German SV conformation ring because these dogs would be considered dogs without papers because their parents have neither working titles, show conformaiton titles, hip/elbow/dna certification. In Germany a dog that is bred out of even one parent dog that does not have the minimum requirements does not receive "pink papers". In other words, they are as good as a mixed breed, in the eyes of the SV. That means no papers for a pure bred GSD. Here in the US we see so often advertisements that market the German Dog but in actual fact the parent dogs do not comply with the German SV standard. It is duping the public. The pedigree is broken and these dogs can go nowhere and nowhere in the breed. They might have the working ability of a BSP dog and the conformation of a VA dog, but it is a dead end. There is no one other than perhaps Helen Gleason that might put such effort in getting an American line dog in the SV showring. This she did with mixed bloodline and the dog got titled, breed surveyed and received a V conformation rating. But could he be shown in Germany? At a National show in the USA? I think not. And anyone interested to show in such a venue should realize that the pedigree has a fault on the sire side. The best Sire in the world with this pedigree will never be awarded a VA because of the broken pedigree.
Judges do look at pedigrees/titles/hips/elbows/hdzw too.
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Sunshine,
They can still be shown...even without lineage of titles.
They will not be placed anywhere you might want them....but they can still be shown.
As for the working class.....the dog themselves must have a title & korrung to receive a "rating".
To receive a higher "rating" the dog, grandparents & great grand parents must have all of the above.
But your dog can show in a German Conformation show in Germany, and receive a rating, even if the lineage are not all titled dogs......
My question would have to be....why would you WANT to travel to Germany, spend all that money & put forth the effort, if your dog is not titled?
Robin |
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| Sunshine, your first sentence is incorrect. As Robin said, if the dogs themselves, have the necessary credentials they can be shown in a SV conformation event. Parents status will not stop them from being shown! |
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GSD Man- the AKC is the recognized registry in the United States by the FCI. This means yes, a dog with AKC registration, be that dog American show type, German show type, German working type, or a run of the mill $300 newspaper GSD CAN ENTER in SV style events if they are registered with the AKC. In the US, if the dog is not SchH titled, you could enter in the adult untitled class for a maximum of an SG rating. To compete in the working class, the dog must be titled. Robin is correct, why even keep asking. It's a fact. And sunshine, no one is saying such a dog would excel in a field of German dogs..only that it is permitted.
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| It is permitted but it is also a dead end. It will go nowhere. The break in the pedigree is there. No matter what one does. No matter how good the dogs are. For the future, the dogs are a dead end. |
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| It is permitted and I have seen it. Dog was a Uecker son, I think, at the NASS. |
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"It is permitted but it is also a dead end. It will go nowhere. The break in the pedigree is there. No matter what one does. No matter how good the dogs are. For the future, the dogs are a dead end."
Sunshine-
Darlin, please corect yourself and stop trying to be an expert in a subject you know nothing about.
Many lines have dogs here and there mising korung, show ratings, working titles and so on. Some pedigrees futher back then others.
This every single dog in the pedigree has all that and a bag of chips is a new concept, good intentions, but does not always work out that way.
Besides, even if the best dogs in the world were American bred entries, parents, grandparents and so one had everything for 10 generations, they would never be allowed to VA1 in the "German" national sieger show. American bred dogs have to be 10 times better then the dogs they place in the shows with in Germany for the same show rating.
There have been American and other countries dogs entered thou, that did not meet your "self imposed" standard who have V rated in the "German" national sieger show.
It's the prettier the pedigree, working or show, the more people willing to, fork over the dough!
Your "dead" dogs or "blank spots" in the pedigree take their toll on the demand, thats all.
Great producers regardless of pedigree "quirks" get bred. Just "American" bred quirky dogs are not allowed or afforded the same opportunities at excelling as "German" and other European ones are. |
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Ulli, Hallowe'en was on a Saturday night this year, with a clear sky and a full moon. Cool weather, but a perfect night for it. That is a holiday that has changed much during my three (3) decades here. Children used to dress in costumes and roam the streets looking for candy, but I don't think they do that anymore. I think they go to Hallowe'en parties instead.
I think now it is more for the adults than the children, as they have parties also. Especially this year, since it was on a weekend, there were a lot of drunk driving arrests. The sherriffs now have web pages that show the faces, names, and crimes of those who were arrested, and it is kind of funny to see someone's picture where they are still in makeup or costume, and very drunk. Of course they are stupid to drive that way.
I remember it as a night of many pranks and some drinking - I remember it well as I was an avid participant!  I don't think that happens anymore either, as many laws have changed and one can make a lot of trouble for himself for just making a funny prank on someone else. Plus, we are all older now and cannot run so fast or far! I know the police had roadblocks in many places so I stayed home with the dogs. There was an occassional siren sound in the distance so they had plenty of howling practice. They enjoyed the holiday.
Best Regards,
Bob-O |
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| Kids today don't have the same kind of Halloween that my generation did. Halloween was the one day of the year even little kids could be out past dark without adult supervision. We "hoodlums" used to roam the neighborhoods in packs in search of the best candy booty, and the best treats were the home made ones like caramel apples, rice crispy treats, and popcorn balls. |
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