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Classified: Male from Quasimodo vom Rosseleck (SG BSP 2009)
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For all dog-trainers who clickertrain their dogs in the "schutzhund"-sport! (27 replies)
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Please join our community around the schutzhund that "thinks along" ;)
Clickertraining works perfectly in the "schutzhund"-sport (in tracking, obedience AND protection!)
For all those, who don't speak any German, we have an English spoken area!
See ya at
http://www.schutzhund-clickertraining.de
Bye
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| We also find that the clicker training start is marvellous... puppies come on beautifully with it. Mo - Mascani |
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Yes, I absolutelly agree!
You can start with the work, when you dog is a few weeks old!
It's great!
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I,ve just started using the clicker training this year, It has worked well for me in obedience, I,ve not tried it in tracking and my own personnel opinion is I would not use it in protection the reason being the only keying i want my dog to do in protection is on me or the helper just my opinion so don,t kill me for it.
I have started using it for the new dog I just purchased also.
I believe it does have it,s place in training. |
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One more thing to lose track of in my training bag and in the tall grass around the van.
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you don't have to have a clicker to clicker train. use your voice
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zdog:
Your right it,s all marker training. The one thing I have found is the tone and sound are always the same with a clicker and for me it,s easier to maintain a learnable quality for my dog, I,m not saying all dogs will respond as well as My Fiest to the clicker I,m starting to us it on my Holly and I will see if i get the same quality of reaction.
Theres always more then one way to skin a cat (or train a dog). I,ve learned more in the last year in training then ever before because I have been able to open my mind more to new experiences. The worst thing a trainer(or training director in my case) can do is have the mind set that everyone elses way is wrong because it,s not my way. Been there, done that, and never going back...
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I use my mouth and my body for training mostly. Everything else ends up lawn mower fodder sooner or later.
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Please:
Steve and my self are looking for some training...
I,m sorry I just had too... |
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| The principles of clicker training arre just the same as those used by, for example, Ivan Balavanov, just that he says "OK" instead of click, therefore avoiding the problems of handling and losing the clicker on the field. The advantage of the clicker is that the sound is very constant so instantly recognisable by the dog. Our puppies learn the basics, sitz, platz etc. with a clicker in the house, they learn so quickly, and dogs trained this way are always happy and eager to work. My husband also uses it on the training field for more advanced obedience. But like Bob Mckown, we have not tried it in protection work. |
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I think the clicker would work better, but we all have our limits, and mine is that I don't want to carry another thing in my hand. I like the freedom marker training gives me to do whatever i want with my hands, so i just use my voice. But yeah, changes in voice can make things a bit less clear, but given some time, it all clears up. One cause I get better, and two the dog learns to read me too. But picking up marker training is one of the best things i've done, i wouldn't teach OB any other way and am looking for new ways to incorporate it into tracking and protection too. I still have some reservations for some exercises, like you do, but find myself getting over them the more I get into it.
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| I,ve never used it in tracking, At what point in the tracking do you use the clicker, at the article when they down? |
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Other than for articles, teaching them, I don't really use it at all. Other than the words I use as far as bridging and an no reward being "good" and "ahh" when teaching the scent pad and short tracks, I don't really use it. The track and the articles become the reward the way most of us teach tracking so keep myself out of it when it comes to rewarding at that point.
I look for other ways to use it, but for tracking I haven't really found a need yet.
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I'm considering using clicker training with Oakley, as she's blind and I must communicate with her by sound or touch. So far, voice is all I've used, but I haven't really worked her in any obedience yet, other than some Sit and Down in the house. Stay is proving to be a lot more of a challenge.
Crys |
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I've used clicker training in the protection phase. You do have to keep in mind that it is more of a "terminal marker" ie the exercise ends with the click. So the helper either needs to operate the clicker or be aware that at the click the dog will seek the "reward" which is often the bite. (in the protection phase) It really has helped clean up areas like the hold and bark and blind search.
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I'd like to add, that there is a huge different between using the clicker as a MARKER for a good and fast execution of a command and the real clickerTRAINING, which means SHAPING.
Most people use the clicker without shaping.
And that is a pity, becaue the TRUE magic of clickertraining you (and your dog) only get, when you shape together.
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Ahh here is the sticky point that causes people to miss understand the clicker itself.
The clicker is a marker whether used in cross-over training, maintenance training or pure shaping. Clicker training is the training system, that has come to mean operant conditioning via mainly positive reinforcement.
This point is also where a lot of police and schutzhund trainers mis understand the concept. The clicker is a convenient (for some of us) way to mark the exact behavior that you are rewarding. Dolphin trainers use a whistle, articulate people like Shelley use their voice. I have run into the problem so many times of fellow trainers obsessing over the clicker itself like it is some "black magic voodoo" device.
On a side note I like shaping in the beginning of learning an exercise, but once the behavior is there, understood and established training moves to more of a maintenance phase.
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| I tried the clicker training when I first brought Echo home at 8 wks but she responded better to my tone of voice so I tossed the clicker. It was a novelty at best for us. Between the sound of my voice and body language the clicker was a distraction as far as Echo was concerned. |
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in my opinion dogs who feel the clicker as a distraction have not been conditionated properly.
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I believe like all other forms of training there are those that it works for and those that it won,t we all have to evaluate there training potential with the particular dog. It works well for one of my dogs the other could care less if he hears a click or not.
that doesnt make it useless just not as usefull with the paticular dog.
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This is really about your website.
Nothing new there, someones got another similar thread on the other forum.
I don't use clickers and never would.
This message board may be disfunctional at times but I still prefer it over others.
Moons. |
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Strange my comment box disappeared... Anywho I used the clicker for a dog I bought at 8months who had never been touched and with my puppy starting at 8 weeks. After a while though I found it too difficult to carry it click, treat and hold a leash all at once. I am too clumsy for all of that:) It did help me learn some timing though to get to use the ok command instead which has had good results. Maybe I should start using it again why not??
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| came across this post while watching my wife from my office teach 4h agility class. actually was watching my cat stalk a baby bird to eat and my wifes class was in the background. there is no such thing as "clicker" training. Clicker is just a tool used as a moment marker. The magic is in what tools you use to establish "new" behaviors. i.e. shaping, modeling, luring, molding, chaining, prompting, free shapeing, targeting and so on. The clicker is a super tool for moment marking...but a voice can be used also...as long as you are consistant...which most humans are not. FYI, dont read and study dog training books......read and study operant conditiong/classical conditioning.......and apply it to dog training. peace and hair grease....i am out...d |
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.jpg) You are so Funny Dave listen to him.....do not waste time reading magazine articles unless they are in the Schutzhund magazine about trainings........do as Dave suggests.....................
why are you in the AC and your wife outside in the hot sun???????lol Just teasing ya..... |
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Maybe it IS nothing new in the states, but in Europe still MOST schutzhund people don't accept the clicker in that sport.
That's really a pity, because the results are amazing!
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Blue Luna,
I can't find the English section! I'd love to check it out.
I use clicker training all the time to shape behaviors, it's wonderful and I've gotten great results. That light in a dog's eye when they realize they make the click happen is the relationship I strive for. And then when they try to figure out the end result of what you want! Yay! Bring me that dumbbell please!
I find that in the states most protection sport people don't believe in the clicker (at least that's been my experience), because they don't understand the training theory or aren't interested in figuring it out. They might not want that kind of relationship with their dog, thinking instead that the dog MUST be made to bring the dumbbell back, not let's make the dog WANT to bring the dumbbell back. It's an entirely different concept to both dog and handler.
I, for one, like the ears up...... and the happy grin.....
Shade
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