German Shepherd dog

Kreiger can be found by search the messageboard...  I don't know if he is called a breeder...you ask for  Tiekerhook breedings...not breeders...Kreiger and Dennis both have Tiekerhook dogs..I was on the phone for weeks with both of them when they bought them...now whether they still have them or not ,, I don't know   pm either of them off the board. 

Number one,,they are too young to be in a breeding program and I do not know...what they did with them...ask them,,please...

Hello, finallyGSD,you have got yourself a very nice pupp and i see you are having alot of fun with him.i like your dog.awesome.have a nice one.

if its the money forget it people wil and have spent various amounts of money  for dogs in the past and present. Getting on the podium is not the basis of judging a dog. Rather the ones of the podium are probably just for that and most do not have the worth to handle real life situation. Speak about Max if you have seen the dog in person or else hold your peace and first go see the dog in person. I reuqest with all due respect to your knowledge and dog sense

regards
 

That is very disappointing Tess.  Was she surprised at her dogs reaction? 
Schutzhund is supposed to be a test to see if a dog is capable of protecting is it not?  It is failing us.  All these dogs with ScHIII titles, that can hit a sleeve lightening fast with great impact, doesn't mean much if they won't protect their master. 

So, is it the social friendly golden type shepherds we are breeding these days or the way they are trained or both?

How many here have titled dogs that are sure they would protect them if need be?

Well... As with anything Leerburg, that guy is right... but ony PARTIALLY. He does not tell the whole thing and he generalizes a lot, I guess in order to sell his videos, puppies and wares. He brushed everything with a singe stroke, and yes, every good story has to have some truth in it and this one does as well.

Generally speaking... what I have observed a LOT of Schutzhund dogs are what we call "point dogs", they do all the exercises in military precision, bite deep and hard and fight the decoy with the sleeve but WILL NOT protect in real life scenario.

On the other hand, A LOT of Schutzhund dogs will NO DOUBT bite somebody they perceive as a threat sleeve or no sleeve and that is a fact as well.

Just this past Sunday, 2 days ago, I have wintnessed it with a green dog.

The dog engaged a decoy with the sleeve. A little tussle etc... as usual the sleeve was slipped, the dog "won" did the circle". For some reason a somewhat newbie handler dropped the leash, decoy was standing maybe 20 feet away and dropped the agitation whip to the ground. The dog spat the sleeve and charged at him FOR REAL. You can see it in his body language.

I was behind the fence with the others, it wasn't my dog (he will ge his first chance to work again next week after 3 months of sitting on his ass).

All I could do was get up off the chair and yell, hoping to distract the dog. The decoy was very calm and collected, although there wasn't that much time, he grabbed the agitation whip and pivoted letting the dog get it in his mouth and rammed it in there.

By that time the stunned newbie handler ran up and clipped the leash on. These things always happen so fast, there is barey time to think or to say... what the ... and bam, it's there.

Decoy did good, though and he told them: Well, you wanted to know if you can have a home protector who will do it for real, I guess we've answered that.

Ok, so the point is, many Schutzhund dogs won't do it for real and many would, it really and truly does depend on the dog.

Me, personally, I will try to take the dog and me as far as we can go as a team in Schutzhund. I am hoping at least Regionals, and after that go personal protection route and have the dog as a companion and a family member afterwards.

As somebody above mentioned, it;s a big liability and not a "parlor trick" to have a dog that will bite anyone anywhere on command when told to, and indeed it is not.

As far as biting for real, we always have to go back to drives civil, defense, prey etc... A whole lot of Schutzhund dogs are prey drivers. Prey in itself is NOT enough to get the dog through the fight when the shit hits the fan, that's why that lady's dog was just dancing around when she was being beaten... Where is the sleeve, mom, where is the sleeve.

Of course, not anyone SHOULD own the "real deal", a dog with cobra-like stare who sees through bluffing like celophane and lunges forward dead serious. If fact, most people should not.

That JIm Duncan guy who works with "for real" dogs should probably shed more light here than I could.

RDH:   you are completely correct about most people do not even know what a ppdog is? nor do they understand what they are asking for.

Good things are coming from Tiekerhook in the very near future.  So hold on United States and enjoy what is soon to be.

Keep your eyes and ears open.


Best Regards,

Michael

 

Molly, can you add anything that would validate or refute evidence of handler aggression through Yoschy, either through your lines or through any associates you've trained with?

Anyone see the recent "food drive" video of Max and Catch on the Tiekerhook site?  Max is a grandson, and Catch is 3-3,4 on Yoschy, both being antagonized while eating http://www.tiekerhook.com/images/videos/fooddrive.wmv  If either of these two were handler aggressive, that would be a pretty good opportunity to see it expressed.

My dog Hutch is a full sibling to Catch, and though his food drive is at least as great as these two, I can take the food from his mouth, and he'd willingly give it.  His aggression is also equally as intense and quick to ignite.  Over two years old now, and never has challenged me.  He's played deaf a few seconds or so while chasing sheep, but his prey drive is so strong it would be difficult to fault him for it.  The kind of willing enthusiasm I've enjoyed from my Yoschy bred dog is greater than I've experienced with any other.  In my estimation, in large part due to his genetics, and enriched by the relationship we've built.

I've not engaged in any particular training methods in either schutzhund or sheepherding that would encourage handler aggression, but my opinion is, I could make many if not most dogs purposely handler aggressive through training if I tried.  So, I'd have to ascribe to the theory as you mention Jim, that some dogs will have issues with the wrong type of handlers.

Exactly what I see in the comments about Czech dogs made by Vikram, BRAINLESS....after all these Czech dogs only excell in policework, SAR, detectionwork, military and oh yes they win National Sch events in the U.S. as well as their own country. These are facts not opinions!!

I'd be willing to bet the food could be taken from either dog without getting bit, but I could be wrong.  But if so, in fairness I wouldn't blame the dog.  I see a dog that can tolerate a lot of abuse, and still retain stability.  I see that in my Hutch as well, with pups biting and jumping on him, and other instances where he remains well composed and focused despite something irratable or totally distracting occuring.

Hutch's appearance is medium sized and weighs 85 lbs, so perhaps many dogs are oversized on average, and makes his size unimpressive.  My understanding being the GSD standard is so often ignored.  Any larger would begin to compromise his athletic ability, and I assure you he's powerful enough to drag a static 200lbs. across a parking lot.

My father never titled a dog and neither have I ...He did teach our Siamese cat to retrieve curlers though...We were swimming and got caught in the rip tide and he told me to swim with it...if you fight it you get tired and drown....if you go with it  it brings you back to shore...that is what I do now when my female refuses to get in her crate.  I try not to turn it into a big battle...don't see why it has to be  

Why not handler hardness?  Not sure how courage was figured in, I didn't say that.  "Willingness, tolerance, and forgiveness" makes it less likely to occur, if you care to quote me.

I've already said it a couple times, that most dogs are probably capable of it, so what's your argument?  That handler aggression is cool?  Situational control is admirable, handlers getting bit by their own dogs should be an embarassment.